Is there a "while you're in there" for an oil change? (Valve adjust? Gasket?)

[sugarwood]

While I change my oil for the season.... Replace valve cover gaskets? Adjust valves?

I was thinking of replacing my valve cover gaskets. I don't think they're leaking, but they are from 1995, based on records. And I've noticed a light residue in a few spots. I also once noticed a pooling drip of oil on the bolt stud (pic below) Would it be worth changing them, just for the experience? I've read that oil spills out when you remove the lower valve covers, so should I do it while the oil is out? I will leave the upper valve covers alone. I have the Turbo lower valve cover upgrade. Do I use the same OEM valve cover gaskets?

How can one tell if their valves need adjusting ? The car runs great, doesn't smoke, so I think the valves are fine, even though I don't think they've been adjusted. In fact, there is a chance the valves have never been adjusted on this 85k mile engine. But, I think doing an actual valve adjustment may be out of my league, as I've repeatedly read that it's a huge PITA, even if you do the "backside" method. Rather, it's easy, once you've done it a bunch of times. The point is, I thought if the valve covers are off, maybe I can use the opportunity to get the feeler gauge in there to feel what the correct tension feels like? That may be the first step towards one day actually attempting a valve adjustment. Any general advice on this dilemma?

Anything else while the oil is out?

[RSTarga]

Valves should be checked and adjusted every 10K miles.

[boyt911sc]

Sugarwood,

If you have not done it before as you said earlier, it would be intimidating for a first timer. It is not difficult but very tedious with the engine installed. Having a header type (exhaust) offers more room to work compared to engine with catalytic converter. There are some tricks that make the valve adjustment easier like:
a). Removing the engine tins between intake and exhaust valves.
b). Using the right or appropriate valve adjustment tool.
c). Lowering the 1 & 4 end side of the engine slightly creates more clearances. Probably not recommended to first timer. I prefer to do this with the engine installed.

I strongly suggest that you do not make any valve adjustment until you do several valve adjustment check (1-6-2-4-3-5). Repeat it several times until you get the feel and confidence. Some of the valves might not need adjustment. Use a suitable wrench (ratchet) to turn the crankshaft clockwise. Always check your adjustments multiple times before putting the valve covers.

Tony

[yelcab1]

Sometimes an oil change is just an oil change.

[DWeg1998]

Check your engine air filter, replace your fuel filter, distributor/rotor, spark plugs, inspect your plug wires, run a weed wacker trimmer line through your sunroof drain holes to clear it of debris. Polish Fuchs with Vaseline. Inspect your battery terminals.

[rwest]

You might want to check the "S" hose from the engine to the oil tank as you would want the oil out to replace it.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Hmmm...

1. As simple as an oil change
2. As simple as an oil change, removing the two seeping bolts on the covers, and glopping some sealant around the the threads, and replacing/retightening
3. Jumping in and doing the adjustment

Whichever you choose- just be glad you don't have the Dilivar studs like mine on the 78, where removing the valve cover is a sphincter squeezing game of Don Pardo (sp?) announcing "You get to REBUILD THAT ENGINE" when you find the broken head stud bolt rattling around.

I did my first valve job recently. Take it slow and assume it will take a whole day. I took about 6 hours, but it was a learning experience for me. I ordered that nifty red kirk valve adjuster to help, and I am glad I did, because I TRASHED all my thickness shims during my learning curve.

Was it necessary to trash them- no. I did so because I was an idiot, and with no guidance, I had little clue what was going on. Does a veteran "need" a kirk tool? No- but I am not a veteran.

I think this is something you can do yourself with patience and the right mindset- however- this is one project where if you can score a local "friend" who has experience in the matter- it might be worth it's weight in gold (or beer). I could have easily halved my time if some of my old p-car friends were nearby and could walk me through it. After doing it- I could do it in much less time a second go around.

What I learned is that some of my valves were way off. Some were sorta off, and some were dead on.

I should go in and redo them again this summer.

You could always just change the oil and go befriend some PCA'ers if you think you will do some events this summer.

Good luck.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Having a header type (exhaust) offers more room to work compared to engine with catalytic converter.
I strongly suggest that you do not make make any valve adjustment until you do several valve adjustment check (1-6-2-4-3-5). Repeat it several times until you get the feel and confidence. Some of the valves might not need adjustment.

My car has the B&B headers and heat exchangers, so that sounds like a plus for access.

I don't want to mess anything this critical, so I think I will avoid attempting to adjust valves on my own. But, I don't know any local 911 guys who would know how to do this either. So forget it.

But, I like the idea of simply testing the clearances with the proper tool. This is a good compromise. Do I need a special feeler gauge just to verify the clearance (and not actually make any changes?)

[universeman]

Haven't done the job but there is a special curved feeler gauge. PP sells it. How will you know clearance is right, is a question you may want to think about. I've heard experience is the only way to learn this.

[sugarwood]

Right, while I don't know the correct feel for a properly adjusted valve,
I would be able to notice if one is significantly different than the others.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

My car has the B&B headers and heat exchangers, so that sounds like a plus for access.

I don't want to mess anything this critical, so I think I will avoid attempting to adjust valves on my own. But, I don't know any local 911 guys who would know how to do this either. So forget it.

But, I like the idea of simply testing the clearances with the proper tool. This is a good compromise. Do I need a special feeler gauge just to verify the clearance (and not actually make any changes?)

Sugarwood,

We all learn from each other experiences. And most of us started knowing very little about our cars and gradually developed skills to a point where you get comfortable sharing these acquired knowledge with others. I have seen and read some of your posts. If you want to learn and do the job like a valve adjustment or an engine rebuild, the first thing I would recommend to you is over come your anxiety and fear of failure.

Find someone you could call and discuss a particular topic or question. Don't be afraid to ask which you do a lot and that's a good trait. Have a mentor or find someone who knows the subject. If you have the time and desire to learn things about your 911, go for it. It is a truly gratifying feeling when you have done a good job like an oil change, a valve adjustment, an engine drop, or an engine rebuild. But in the course of achieving these experiences, you would suffer some set backs or failures. Get back on your feet and don't quit. At the end, you will be good and successful in your endeavors.

Tony

[LEAKYSEALS951]

^good advice there.

I double-dog dare you to do it.

I had the exact same concerns about having no experience for the "feel" for the shims. I bought the shims and the kirk tool from pelican to verify them against one another. I was complete thumbs on the feeler gauges/shims. Avoiding any and all possible sexual innuendo to first encounter experiences (althought this will sound like every teenage "coming of age" cheesy movie): The stakes were high. I was nervous. I couldn't see what I was doing. The space was tight. I couldn't find the slot, I couldn't get it in, I couldn't get a smooth reproduceable feeling. As a first timer, I needed the guidance of an experienced lover to show me the way...

But seriously- and this will sound like a pitch for the Kirk tool- and for beginners maybe it is. With it, just loosen the lock nut, tighten the screw until it bottoms, back it off a 1/3 of a turn, and tighten the nut. It's as much about understanding the concept of what the tool is doing as anything else.

Does someone with a good set of shims, confidence, and experience need the tool?
Nope. But it worked great for me. It was something I "understood"

All I used for reading was the pelican "how to" on adjusting the valves and the kirk instruction manual- which I am sure is posted online somewhere. Suddenly- the picture of the screwdriver on this website with two nails (or whatever) welded on it at about a third of a turn made total sense.

Not trusting my own inexperience- I went and adjusted them not once, but TWICE before I called it a day.

Tell you what- pull the covers, fondle them in place all you like. Find the most accessible rocker and play with that one. Loosen that lock nut and twist away (of course with that cylinder in it's TDC). If you don't feel confident about it- tighten the valve with slightly too much gap, drive it to the shop, and have a shop redo them all for you, which will cost no more than having a shop do it for you in the first place.

[Taxi!]

Sugarwood,

I'm in the same boat as I don't know when the PO adjusted the valves, if ever, but figure the car's probably due. I've had new,gaskets and the Kirk tool in my garage for at least a year but have always found other projects that were more necessary. With that being said, I agree with Tony that unless your car is a daily driver that you need to get to work, you learn so much about your car when you get in there and do things outside your comfort zone.

[OsoMoore]

If you are going to do a valve adjustment, look for a new friend who is willing to help you on your first attempt. I'd bet if you advertise beer/pizza and a sunny weekend afternoon, someone in your area would be happy to help.

I made a good friend when after advertising with the local PCA chapter for gearheads with older cars. He volunteered for a chilly April morning doing valves, and now we do car work together all the time.

[dan88911]

I am in the same boat as you sugarwood.
I am planning to adjust my valves at 60k I have about 3000 miles before I get there. (car was/is garage queen with 50K when I bought it a few yrs. ago)
I bought the kirk tool and read the backside method tech article. As well as other post.
I may be wrong and perhaps this is the long way around this job.
But I figured I would go thought and check the valves first, to find the "go no go" via Backside method then adjust any that need it.
Maybe a veteran will way in on this idea.

[Lake Guy]

I'm going to do my first valve adjustment this spring. Like every other 1st timer I'm wondering what will happen but I know it will eventually get done correctly and the next time will be easier. I bought the 911 because I wanted a challenge and I'm in a location that doesn't have an official Porsche mechanic within 600 miles let alone an air cooled specialist. If I don't do it it's not getting done!

[198491132]

Right with you Sugarwood. Been holding off myself a bit. This seems to be a popular point of hesitation in the learning curve......

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Do I need a special feeler gauge just to verify the clearance (and not actually make any changes?)

I have a dial indicator and the special Z block to hold it onto a nearby stud. You rock the valve, you know the lash.

You may borrow.

What you going to do when you find that first sloppy valve? You going to button it up and drop $500 for an indy shop to fix after you have done 90% of the valve adjustment grunt work?

I have my personal views on your thought process, but I will not type a word.

[Pazuzu]

This is 1950s technology, built in a country where function was more important than form.

EVERY SINGLE BASIC REPAIR OR MAINTENANCE JOB ON A 911 IS DOABLE BY YOUR GRANDMOTHER.

All you need is time, more time, even more time, balls of steel, and a handful of tools. The things you need to get to are not hidden away, they just might make your back hurt. Nothing requires any particular skillset, nor much in the way of specialty tools, nor much in the way of automotive experience. All it requires is lots of time (5 times as much as you expect) and the nerve to jump in knowing that it is very very very unlikely that you can do anything destructive.

I mean this for everything. Valve adjust? CHECK. Shifter adjustment? CHECK. Oil change, fuel filter change? CHECK CO level adjustment, add a sport chip, change the muffler, upgrade torsion bars, change to an RS bumper, rebuild the entire engine? CHECK CHECK DOUBLE CHECK.


Human beings design the car. Human beings built the car. Human beings can FIX the car.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Nothing requires any particular skillset, ............ lots of time (5 times as much as you expect) and the nerve to jump in knowing that it is very very very unlikely that you can do anything destructive.

Well stated.

skillset = general curiosity, patience, diligence and that healthy smidgen of fear. Fear helps with the second two.