R12 Freon - I have access to some- worth getting?

[twin plugged targa]

Hi Guys
I normally don't bother with A/C on my 911's as it is expensive and inefficient.
However, I am currently in an area where I saw cans of R12 in the shelf for $6/can (390g can)
I know that the R12 was always way superior to the other newer freon replacements
I would need to replace the dryer and get the system pressure tested 1st obviously as it has not been cool in the 5 years I have had this one. But the system is intact and compressor clutch seems to be working, etc.
What might you be tempted to do? and how many cans would I need?
This would be for personal use in France

1) - Avoid it as it is illegal to possess or use? (plus not environmentally friendly)
2) - Not bother as an old system is costly and ineffective at best
3) - But some cans and give it a go? (if so how many cans needed)
4) - How will I know if my system is set up for R134 or R12?

PS - I am about 5,000miles from my car right now
Cheers
Ben

[markhoward]

R12 may be worth using on some cars but not a 911 if it has the original A/C hoses. From what I understand, the original hoses leak over time meaning R12 would be expelling into the environment. See Griffiths Mr Ice project for more info:

https://griffiths.com/porsche/air-conditioning/911-930/mr-ice-project/barrier-hose-upgrade/

I would save the R12 for a different car..

[GH85Carrera]

If you can buy some and put it on your own shelf, it likely will be a good thing to have if your car has never been converted to R-134. As mentioned above, replace the hoses and the receiver dryer before you recharge.

R-12 in a 100% OEM system working properly works fine if the ambient temp is 85F or below. It struggles at higher temperatures. In the south of France if it does not get HOT very often, the stock system is fine. Just replace the hoses so you don't have to recharge every spring.

[darrin]

also, keep in mind that you'll need to have enough r-12 on hand to allow for future recharges. Otehrwise, you'll need to convert to r134a and evacuate the system when a recharge is needed

[jlex]

At $6 per can, buy as much as you can. Even if you don't use it, you can sell it all at a tidy profit... In the States, that stuff's selling for about $30/can. Don't know what it could fetch in France.

[john walker's workshop]

Buy and hoard.

[twin plugged targa]

Very tempting!
How can I tell if my system is set up for R12 or R134a?
How many cans would I need for an empty charge?
Thanks
Ben

[twin plugged targa]

[john walker's workshop]

3 if I remember right. Used to do a/c eons ago, before the feds clamped down.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by markhoward

R12 may be worth using on some cars but not a 911 if it has the original A/C hoses. From what I understand, the original hoses leak over time meaning R12 would be expelling into the environment. See Griffiths Mr Ice project for more info:

https://griffiths.com/porsche/air-conditioning/911-930/mr-ice-project/barrier-hose-upgrade/

I would save the R12 for a different car..

that's r134 that leaks. the original hoses were designed for r12.

[jlex]

Usually there's a sticker saying if it's been converted to 134a. If not, then the fitting should be looked at.... the R12 fitting on the fill hose won't fit on a 134a fitting and vice versa. Different fitting sizes is meant to keep from mixing the two accidentally.

[kuehl]

Depending upon the year of the 911 you will need 3-4
12 oz cans; and occasionally you will need 1 more for purging the lines or if you goof up swapping cans.

Normally you can expect the system to leak if it is original and stock, whether you use
R12, R134a or another approved alternative. The more you use it the more you will lose it (its all based on Time, Temperature and Pressures; and the size of the leak).

Whether you are 'allowed' to use it in your location depends upon the law there.

Depending upon the year of the car and which compressor you are using, in terms of is it set up to use R12 or R134a depends upon the type of 'service' ports on the compressor. R12 service ports kinda look like a car tire valve, meaning there are threads on the outer diameter of the service port. R134a service ports are a tad larger in diameter, the outer diameter has no threads. If the car was converted to R134a correctly there would be a blue colored sticker in the engine bay noting it was converted to R134a. Here is just one link discussing how to tell:
Service Ports

Is it worth the time and money to charge the car or fix the AC to work correctly or better? If the AC is a stock system you would usually want to replace the AC hoses with barrier hoses, replace any o-rings if it is an o-ring system, replace the drier, add a low-high pressure switch. That would be for starters. Usually a stock system running R12 in a light colored body, coupe, one occupant, is good up to 75F, provided humidity is low, and naturally your personal cooling needs. Some people are comfortable with 50 F degree vent temps, some are not. Some people just want to take the edge off while others enjoy a meat locker low temp. Some say drive fast with the windows down. And, depending upon how many warm or hot driving days you have per year. Else, you might consider making the investment in upgrades so you can drive the car and enjoy it; I want mine to die before I do, and if I decide to sell it with upgrades it will sell quicker and higher compared to a like vehicle otherwise. Its all up to you.

[sc_rufctr]

I wouldn't buy it because "they" stopped using it in cars for a reason.

Using a R134a system is fine if you also reduce the heat load in your car. (tinted windows)