E30 M3 vs G50 3.2 and/or 964

[nhs15]

Current dilemma - have a garage queen E30 M3 from EAG. Miss being in a 911, had a 78 Targa many years ago. While I love long hoods, current search is for G50 3.2 911s or 964s. Used as a driver and a few track days maybe. I realize the bias with this forum but which would you rather have, if you could only have one? Decisions decisions..

[McLaren-TAG]

You currently have a garage queen of a car that's likely going to go up in value and you want a car that's already gone up in value to use as a driver and occasional track buddy.

Your situation would have worked better if it was the other way around.

Do what you're going to enjoy most.

[Trackrash]

Tough call.

Might be easier, and possibly cheaper in the long run, to expand your garage and get an inexpensive (Boxster?) driver to take out and thrash.

If only one car, I vote for the 964. Lots of potential and good values now.

[kyngfish]

That's a dilemma. As a driver's car the M3 is awesome, but in my humble opinion, just not as fun or as fast as a 911 in stock form.

But the value isn't going to drop. Do you have to sell one to get the other?

You can get a 3.2 driver at a very reasonable price nowadays compared to 2 years ago. Cars are rarely an investment, but the M3 as pretty much as close as you can get. Unless you absolutely need the cash, I'd just finance the 3.2 (several places will finance it at attractive rates) and treat the M3 like a piggy bank you can cash out whenever (IF) you want to.

Don't know about the 964, but most of the 964 coupes I see are already more expensive than a 3.2, plus heavier - I feel like if you want to do track days, the 3.2 is a better starting point, but that's just my 2 cents.

[mgatepi]

Well, I have both....in the garage...... living the life of a queen. My wife jokingly (but serious) says she sometimes visits our beach house in the garage. Well not a beach house but a good down payment.

After having both I can say I much rather drive my 911 than either the E30 M3 or Cabrio. All are fun and on nice summer evenings it is awesome to cruise in the convertible. But if I have to sell them all, the 911 would be the last to go. There just is nothing that compares.

[nhs15]

This is all great advice, thank you. I was already hesitant to sell the E30. Maybe just pickup a clean 3.2 G50. I would send the wife a link to this thread but it might backfire..

[mgatepi]

Any opinions on the E30 M3 values? I noticed you bought from EAG, I did too. Kind of feel like I paid a premium, but I believe the car is a premium car.
What / when is the TOP?

[nhs15]

Definitely pay a premium with them but I couldn't find anything privately. And they do get premium cars. I think values are stable. Lets see what happens as spring arrives. I don't see them going down.

[Busta Rib]

If your E30 is a queen, you could probably sell the E30 and buy both a 3.2 and a 964...two for the price of one. Have the 964 as a daily driver and mint 3.2 (with G50) as your new queen.

[G50]

I've been in the same situation for a year or so, but in reverse.

I have a garage queen, 79,000 mile '88 Carrera that I keep in storage and just don't drive (or even see) very much. Like once every 3-4 weeks, just to keep it exercised.

I've thought of trading it for an E30 M3.

Mainly because I've had a lot of 911s in the past 25 years.

But then I take it out, drive it, park it in my garage and think "how could I think of getting rid of this?!?"

So it's a tough call.

Valuewise, I think they have paralleled each other remarkably closely. In rough numbers, they were both $15,000 (for nice drivers) cars 10 years ago, and are now both $45,000 cars (for nice drivers).

They both had very rapid climbs in price, but have been level or declined a bit in the last year or 2.

Both can get fairly large money for really low mile, really original examples (i.e. top 5% cars), but the vast majority of good, clean ones are going to trade between high 30s and mid-high 40s.

Part of my concern is I've had my 911 for a long time and know it's in top shape. I wouldn't want to sell that and pick up a headache of an E30 M3.

[megerian]

Getting advice from this forum, and spending time reading The Used 911 Story, by Peter Zimmerman, I decided that a 87-89 G50 was what I wanted. So that's what I bought, and have had no regrets. The book lays out some nice, simple pros and cons for each model year.

[Ryan H]

I found the E30 M3 to be a little boring to drive. Maybe I am crazy. Also, 318's and 325's are all over the place now. I realize they are completely different, but you don't have that issue with an aircooled 911.

[porschenut]

Between those three, G50 911 hands down. The E30 M3 is an enthusiast's Bimmer, but it just doesn't hold a candle to the 911. The 964 is a great daily driver 911, but if you want a garage queen or weekend thrill ride, get a 911.

[Lake Guy]

I've had 325s and 335is - no M3. I like BMWs and Audis as great daily drivers and long haul vehicles. Hard to beat an X5 or SQ5 on a road trip with luggage. BUT when it comes to a cool car that makes you feel great it's hard to beat the air cooled 911. No one ever asks me about one of our Bimmers or Utes at a gas station but I can't tell you how many times somebody's approached me while I put fuel in the front fender of the 911. Now that's the just the visible part to make your ego feel good. The real pleasure comes from shifting gears, standing on the gas , and hearing the sound of the air cooled scream. I don't have a 2 door BMW right now (guess they were expendable) but I have the 911 so I guess that's my advice.

On a different note, in BC most M3's appear to be driven and flogged by punks with to much of Daddy's cash and no talent. Not so with the classic 911s.

[yelcab1]

A high quality E30 M3 is very rare and takes a special someone to appreciate. I would totally strike up a conversation with you in a parking lot if I saw you. That is the only car I am sorry I sold. I would keep that and add an air cooled 911 in the 84-89 Carrera series.

If you only want one car, keep the M3. You can always buy a 911, there are many.

[Tremelune]

It probably depends on your climate and roads and where/how you drive, but. I drove an E30 M3 regularly for years, back to back with a G50, and I know what I'd choose.

Financially over time, E30 M3s and G50 coupes will do about the same (depending on condition). Crazy-low-miles collector cars will appreciate to the moon forever, but drivers cars will rarely clear $40-50k, because while the E30 and 911 are classics and there is no direct comparison, at that price point they're competing with the 996 Turbo, V8 Vantage, 1-Series M, Z06...Lovely monsters that are an absolute pleasure to drive that aren't dropping in price either. In terms of modern cars, we're talking about classics that (performance-wise) are more in line with, like, a $15k BRZ or Caymen.

The E30 M3 is very rare to see, sounds brilliant when screaming to redline, and behaves phenomenally well at the limits of tire adhesion. It's a fantastic track car that you can also drive on the street in civility and comfort, with good AC and a back seat for passengers. That said, it has no torque to speak of, which is really noticeable around town. It is very buzzy on the highway due to gearing. s14.net is an abomination of forum software.

When I bought my G50 coupe, the M3 got put away until I needed AC or passengers. I bought another 911 ('84) the following year. That said a lot to me, and is ultimately the reason I sold the M3 when I ran out of space (but not before I sold my E46 M3).

The 964 is "better" than the G50, but I've never liked the look of them.

If I had a good clean E30 M3 in my garage that I could trade for a good clean G50 coupe I would absolutely do it. Don't compromise on color much—it's the costliest thing to change.

[matthewb0051]

I had an E30 M3. Sold it in 2006 and miss it all the time.

My .02 on why the M3 is not as good as the 911 as some say: the US version was watered down for the US market. Gear ratios changed and diff changed.

I drove my US spec M3 on the Nurburgring and I could really tell the deficiencies. I was essentially down to 4 gears due to the 5th gear overdrive.

I found a correct dog-leg gearbox and matching diff. Added an Evo III flywheel and front splitter. Those transformed the car to what it was meant to be. Then I got stupid and sold it. But the sale was forced in a manner of speaking, I was moving to Northern NY (Army) and had the M3 and my current 911E. Neither was going to do me any favors in a few hundred inches of snow annually.

Its a tough choice. My recommendation is try to get/keep both if that is what you are in to. I know that if I sell my longhood 911, it will not be easy to replace unless I win the lottery. Ditto for the M3. They are pretty rare (under 20k produced) and it is hit or miss in the market place. And even if you find one you can never be sure if it has been thrashed to within an inch of its life.

[megerian]

Just pointing out that the original post was not asking for input on his M3 compared to a 911, but rather was looking for suggestions on which 911 to buy.

[Tremelune]

Yikes. Completely missed the purpose of this thread in my eagerness to pontificate on E30 M3s and 911s...

Anyway, 911s are gorgeous, 964s are ugly, and aftermarket AC is better than factory.

[trader220]

I bought an e30 M3 brand new in 1990. I kept that car for 4 1/2 years which is eternity in car years for me. (sold it for $16,500 with 43,500 miles). It was also the last brand new car I bought. Since then I have owned around 25 to 27 911's. All air cooled and just about every model you can name except for a long hood. RSA, 94 Speedster, 993 C2s, 993 C4s.. etc etc. Currently I have two 88's a coupe and a targa.

I loved the M3, at 28 years old it was the perfect car for me. Of course I liked that back then that people wanted to stop light race me every where I went. (its not a stop light racer). The car was so well balanced and a joy to drive. It was the first car I went to the track with, and really learned what its like to drive. The G-body 911 takes a lot more skill to drive, I also find it a lot more rewarding. The 964's are are more powerful, have better creature comforts and are easier to drive closer to the edge.

My problem with the 964 is I think they're priced too high anymore. Not that they're all of a sudden going to fall big time in price. I just don't feel like I want to pay the premium to get into one. I also don't think the market in them is about to lift off further. The e30 M3 I believe has passed into that area where the good ones left are never coming out of the garage again, except for that perfect Sunday morning drive. The prices are very high and I think that over time they'll continue to climb at a steeper rate than the G-body 911. Its a numbers game. many more 911's over that period, say 78 to 89 than the 88 to 91 e30 M3. Will the e30 M3 and 964 climb at the rate they did from 2012 to 2015? I don't think so, but they're a better holder of value than the G-Body.

If I were in your situation, I would hang onto the e30 M3 and pick up a driver G-body. Don't rule out any of the 915 boxed SC's or Carrera's. They're excellent cars and you just need to sort the 915 and make sure its in good nick and set up properly. If you buy a good driver quality 911 you wont feel guilty about racking up the miles, and it will put a smile on your face. Save the e30 M3 for those Sunday morning open road shots and it will hold value nicely and even appreciate.

My only words of caution are don't for a second believe any of these cars are really "investments". They may appreciate modestly in value but they're not investments. If you bought one of these cars before the market swelled then great, but don't kid yourself into thinking they're going to out perform a simple SandP 500 ETF over the long haul.