996 motor into early 911, SC or Carrera?

[chuckw951]

Hi,

I happened to read a Q&A in the Feb 2004 Excellence magazine that got me thinking.

Question was something like "what is the latest motor that I can install in my 911" and the answer was that the 996 motor would fit. Has this been done before?

Chuck

[masraum]

I think I have read here that someone tried it or possibly did it (but I don't think so)

The expense and trouble would not be worth it. You'd be better off putting in a late model 3.6, or an early turbo motor. If you want to go water cooled you might as well use a small block chevy.

[chuckw951]

Originally posted by masraum
You'd be better off putting in a late model 3.6, or an early turbo motor.

Oh no, not me, I'm done with motor swaps for now!

I'm just wondering if it's possible and how difficult it would be...

[Az911]

Kelly Moss Motorsports has done the swap before into a 993. Check out there sight for more info. Here is a pic from the sight

[kstar]

That motor in the Kelly Moss 993 is a 470hp NA GT-3 motor!

Nice motor for an early RSR project.

Cool man.

BR,

Kurt

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Anything is possible. You could put a Rolls-Royce Merlin V12 into a 911, with enough money and effort... And I don't mean that as a dumb joke; there are people out there (most of then in Southern California) who would happily take your money and make it happen.

Stephan

[ZAMIRZ]

A guy out here (member Axeman's mechanic) by the name of Lance tried to do a 996 motor swap into an '89 Speedster for a customer and couldn't get it finished. He's a pretty competant mechanic and built a Mk. 1 996 GT3 out of a standard 996 Carrera for a customer so if he couldn't get it done I'd say it's damn near impossible / not worth it.

[cegerer]

The bit in Excellence refers to a 73 911 and makes it sound fairly straightforward - as if it has been done on a number of occasions??? They indicate that the radiators will fit under the front fenders if the battery boxes are removed. They do indicate that a 996 GT-3 engine would NOT fit without major modifications.

[cegerer]

And I'm still gathering the missing pieces for this eventual engine swap ....

[makaio]

Originally posted by ZAMIRZ
A guy out here (member Axeman's mechanic) by the name of Lance tried to do a 996 motor swap into an '89 Speedster for a customer and couldn't get it finished.

I'm curious was it because the owner ran out of money for the project, or the guy just couldn't get it done?

And Curt, I bet that's an expensive piece of jewelry you have on that pallet.

[speeder]

Re: 996 motor into early 911:

Might as well just stand naked in an ice-cold shower tearing up $100 bills and bashing yourself in the head w/ a tire iron.

Next question.

I've considered a 996 motor into a water-cooled Vanagon, (all of the plumbing and heat, etc., is already there), but would only work w/ 996 trans, axles, electronics, etc... So, unless a balled-up 996 falls into my lap for peanuts it ain't gonna happen in this lifetime.

A 3.2 into an air-cooled, ('80-'83), Vanagon is definitely in my plans, however.

[Jack Olsen]

The nice thing about the air-cooled 3.6 is the way it mates up to a 915, and doesn't require you to replace items like the transaxle, clutch, pedal cluster, axles, and the like. What's more, the aerodynamic design of the post-89 cars is very different from the pre-89 ones, in terms of the car's ability to move air through anything that's in the front fenders. The 964 gets by with a single fender-based oil cooler (eliminating the motor-based one) primarily because the body design allows so much more airflow up there. So even if you find the room for the radiators, you're going to have to get a lot of air moving through them to make it as efficient as a 996 front end.

It's not an impossible swap, and I've got no direct experience with doing one. But I think it's safe to say that it's not nearly as straightforward as an air-cooled 3.6 swap.

As 996 prices drop, it will probably approach the point where it'd be cheaper to simply buy a used 996.

[cegerer]

"As 996 prices drop, it will probably approach the point where it'd be cheaper to simply buy a used 996."

The only drawback there, of course, is you would then have a 996 ...... Hmmmm, anybody thought of buying a 996 and backdating it to a longhood. Guess I just did. Think I'll go warm the cuttin' torch up ......

[cegerer]

I'm kinda surprised at the low prices on 996 motors. Supply and demand, I suppose. But at those prices, maybe it will be the incentive for somebody to become the Dr. Timmins of 996s ......

These are prices from one salvage yard:

Porsche 2000 996 3.4 complete engine 17k miles $9000 with exhaust or $7500 with out exhaust

Porsche 1999 996 3.4 complete engine 14k miles $9000 with exhaust or $7500 with out exhaust

Porsche 1999 996 3.4 complete engine 19k miles $9000 with exhaust or $7500 with out exhaust

Porsche 2000 996 3.4 engine / motor 7K miles $7500 complete SOLD

Porsche 996 twin turbo motor, complete motor $30,000 SOLD

Porsche 02 996 turbo motor 6k miles $22000 SOLD

Porsche 2000 996 long block engine only 10K miles $6000 SOLD

Porsche 00 996 motor complete assembly $6500 SOLD

[Bill Douglas]

I think your current 3.0 is a better engine...

The 996 (997) engine may be better in the future but they are not very highly regarded right now. Even the factory doesn't use them in their top end cars, the GT3 engine is basically a water cooled version of a 993 motor, with other mods of course.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by cegerer
I'm kinda surprised at the low prices on 996 motors. Supply and demand, I suppose.

The 996 motors are a much cheaper motor to start out with than the earlier motors (or water cooled motors based on the earlier motors). I think a new 996 motor is half the price of a 993 motor.
-Chris

[speeder]

Curt, those prices aren't nearly low enough for me yet, but they will be soon. Supply and demand and all that. I want a 996 motor+6-speed trans for around $7k w/ all electronics, don't care if it has 60k+ miles. And I'd need the exhaust. (I guess the exhaust is big $$ for these?). Then you will see my 300hp, 6-speed Vanagon based on an "86-'91 water-cooled model.

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally posted by Bill Douglas
I think your current 3.0 is a better engine...

The 996 (997) engine may be better in the future but they are not very highly regarded right now. Even the factory doesn't use them in their top end cars, the GT3 engine is basically a water cooled version of a 993 motor, with other mods of course.

The case for the GT3 and all turbocharged 996s is the same as the 964 turbo, just with water-cooled heads.

[1fastredsc]

Well here's a thought, why doesn't someone become a steady supplier for water cooled heads on early 911 motors. Supplying heads for all the early motors (2.0-3.6), this way compression and/or boost can be raised without issues. Plus with cooler temps the valveguides will probably last longer as well.

[Speedster94]

hallo
The Kelly Car has a GT3 CUP Engine ( about 30 K if you find one )
All HO Engines are based on 964/993 Engines with Watercooled Heads ,
The 996 Engines have a very different Design ,the Bolt pattern does not match any earlier Gearbox , the Starter is on the Engine side ,the Oiltank is on the Engine beside/above the Gearbox etc.
Dont compare a 993 with a Subframe Rearaxle to a earlier Car ,not even a 964 . I have sold a 2003 Engine to somebody who is specialized in Vanagon conversions and has done more than 50 Conversions ,he
worked almost 6 month on the Car at the cost of almost 60 K .
It is possible but not without major Cutting/welding to the Body and a lot
of Money . I am sure you can not do it for less than 20-30 K that is not including the Engine/tranny .
Even so the Dollar is weak you will find a Euro Varioram for a little less than 10 K $ ,if a 964 is not enough .
harald