Performance Upgrade Help / Suggestions

[Cyrus3]

Hi. I'm looking to improve the handling of my 88 Targa. The car is totally stock, so I'm searching for common mods that will have a great impact on the handling of the car. I'm not looking to go crazy with upgrades, just looking for some solid advice on where to start. Thanks.

[Roswell]

Just went through this with my '88 targa.

First thing is replace all the shocks, front & rear, with Bilstein B6. This alone will make an amazing difference.

In what shape are your tires? How many miles on the car? If you are over 120k I would check out the bushings and replace as needed. Elephant Racing rubber bushings is a great product.

Alignment at a Porsche experienced shop and corner balancing.

[Cyrus3]

Thanks. The car has less than 50k on it with new tires. Thanks for the advice.

[Roswell]

Also, a strut brace in the front.

[jpnovak]

What do you consider to be lacking about the handling? Sounds like a low mileage car. Is this street? Track? Canyon Carver? What is your location? Do you only have surface streets or mountain roads or somewhere in between? What do you want out of the car? Answer these questions carefully before making significant changes.

Generally your rubber suspension bushings will be cold flowed, mis-shaped and hard as a rock. This will cause the car to ride choppy and have limited suspension compliance compared to stock. First on the list for me would be to replace the bushings so the wheel can follow the road as intended.

[Cyrus3]

Sure.... The car is a street car, low mileage and all original. I recently bought it, but it is not my first 911. I had a 997 for about 5 years - but I prefer the way the 88 drives over my 997. It's not a track car as I drive it (mostly) on paved surfaces. I live in NY, and prefer to drive the car on twisty mountain roads, but I also drive it around town. I've noticed that the car rolls or torques a bit around tight turns. I assume this is normal for a targa. I noticed that many people install a strut brace (like Roswell suggested), I also see many people install wheel spacers and up the size of the tires a bit. I want to proceed carefully so relying on you guys for advice. Thanks.

[HorstP]

low mileage but still old. So you need to change out the rubber bushings unless you have evidence that is was done already. It sounds like you should not /want not to put any so-called improvements or aftermarket suspension parts on it.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by HorstP

low mileage but still old. So you need to change out the rubber bushings unless you have evidence that is was done already. It sounds like you should not /want not to put any so-called improvements or aftermarket suspension parts on it.

If the torsion bar rubber bushings are factory original, they almost surly need to be replaced. They are 30 year old rubber parts with much of the weight of the car on them. The rubber tends to cold flow and the torsion bard will be off center and rub. Doing a refresh of the bushings, and new shocks and turbo tie rods will make a huge impact on the handling, and your wallet.

I would suggest you contact Elephant Racing and get his input. Stick to the rubber bushings and you will love it. I did all of that myself. The front is easy, the rear, a bit of a challenge.

Read the thousands of threads on this board on suspension changes and upgrades or refurbishments. You will see someone has done just exactly what you will want to do and many that are for the track or just not what you want.

There is a very slippery slope when it comes to "while I am in there" so watch the budget.

[Ayles]

Timely thread! Just dissasembled one side yesterday and the bushings were definitely in bad shape the rear bushing wasnt fully seated and was definitely compressed and worn. My torsion bars seemed to have rusted and flaking etc... get teady to spend some time and $$$.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Cyrus3

Sure.... The car is a street car, low mileage and all original. I recently bought it, but it is not my first 911. I had a 997 for about 5 years - but I prefer the way the 88 drives over my 997. It's not a track car as I drive it (mostly) on paved surfaces. I live in NY, and prefer to drive the car on twisty mountain roads, but I also drive it around town. I've noticed that the car rolls or torques a bit around tight turns. I assume this is normal for a targa. I noticed that many people install a strut brace (like Roswell suggested), I also see many people install wheel spacers and up the size of the tires a bit. I want to proceed carefully so relying on you guys for advice. Thanks.

It's not a track car as I drive it (mostly) on paved surfaces. I live in NY, and prefer to drive the car on twisty mountain roads, but I also drive it around town. I've noticed that the car rolls or torques a bit around tight turns. I assume this is normal for a targa.

Body roll is not Targa specific, it is a trait of all stock suspension 911s. For street use the stock suspension compromise is pretty decent, sure you can put a stiffer suspension on the car, this will make it better on smooth mountain roads but worse on potholed urban streets. A simple thing to do to make it better, use a modern high pressure mono-tube gas shock w/ digressive valving.

the bushes may or may not be shot, best to evaluate them then chance as needed. Stick w/ oe style rubber, sport rubber if available.

turbo tie rods make a small but useful difference

The biggest 2 things to do set the car up right and wheels/tires

Setup
ride height
front 140 to 160mm, the higher # is a lower car, ~140-150 is ok w/ steering rack spacers, 150-160 will need more intrusive steps to ease bump steer
rear
-5 to +10, lower# is a lower car

keep a slight rake
corner balance

wheels and tires being the point of contact will have a major effect on handling. There are 2 competing schools of thought - shorter 15" tires because of the salutatory effect on gearing or taller 17" ties for the advantage of availability and sizing
which ever school you subscribe to try to keep tire heights at or below 25"
8 ET25 to 30 fronts w/ 225 =>245 tires
8 ET10.6 to 0 rears w/ 225 tires the, and lower to ET0 the more fitment hoops to jump through
or 9ET15 to 12 rears w/ 245 => 275 tires, same as w/ 8s but the limit is ~12

or 9.5 ET19(no wiggle room) w/ 245 => 275 tires

When fitting tires a good rule of thumb is to keep them
short
use the widest wheel the tire is spec'd for

some examples
15x 205/50 on 7ET23.3 Fuchs
15x 245/40 or 225/50 on 8ET10.6 Fuchs
advantage really short 22.7" 245/45, 23.8" 225/50, uses oe Fuchs

16x 205/45 on 7ET23.3 Fuchs
16x 205/50 "
16x 205/55 "
16x 225/50 on 8ET10.6 Fuchs
16x 245/45 on 9 ET15 Fuchs
advantage uses oe Fuchs, tire height 225 is 24.9", 245 is 24.7"

17x 225/45 on 8ET24 to 31 custom wheels
17x 255/40 on 9ET15 or 9.5ET19 custom wheels
advantages wider rubber on wider wheels provides better grip, lots of tire choices, tire height ~24.9" you could also fit 245/45 x17 on 9 or 9.5 for a shorter 24.6" tire

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by Cyrus3

Hi. I'm looking to improve the handling of my 88 Targa. The car is totally stock, so I'm searching for common mods that will have a great impact on the handling of the car. I'm not looking to go crazy with upgrades, just looking for some solid advice on where to start. Thanks.

Take a look at this thread to get an idea of what others have done. Post Pictures of the Right Stance

BTW, Bill's post is a great resource. He has a lot of experience with these TB cars.

[Ayles]

Heres what you might be up against, took the passenger side apart today.

[Trackrash]

Yea, new front A-arm bushings for you. Count your blessings, those are now available again.

[darrin]

It's my understanding that, for a street car, the strut brace will not make a perceptible difference to handling, but will make it difficult (impossible?) to store the targa top in the frunk

[Trackrash]

Unless you are using grippy tires and are running a stiff suspension, I doubt you would benefit much from a strut brace.

[911 Rod]

Budget?

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

Budget?

It's a slippery slope while you are in there.

IMO, if it needs to be fixed, you may as well do it now. Delayed maintenance may not be cost effective.

[mgar88]

novice question: Does replacing the torsion bar bushings require an alignment afterwards?

[Flojo]

Count it in for sure.
Why?
Because the car sat unti now on a sgged chassi.
Refurbishing all bushings -and I strongly recommend shocks and turbo tie rods and lower strut balljoint as well- will change its setting. So finish this properly.

[911 Rod]

To do it right just get a package deal like at Elephant. No looking back.