Shafted twice on transmissions. Should I stay or should I go?

Jeffreypang911 · 08:57 AM

A bit of a rant today but I think I need to get this out of my system.

I make a pretty modest living but Porsche ownership has been my biggest dream since childhood. There was a cheap 74 911 that I purchased a year ago - you may have seen my build thread on it so far.

I knew there would be issues with it - so I have done the best I have to fix everything myself since I have worked on cars for a long time. So far the car has been a challenge - since I come form the world of Japanese cars where everything is cheap, easy to work on, and reliable. No headstand problems. No valve guide issues. No broken clutch forks. Some people might call this the "charm" of the car heh.

When I had my first drive, I took it around the block. The PO told me that the engine and trans were in very good condition. He even drove me around in both. I changed the engine oil once I got back. The transmission oil I was going to do the next day, but I took it out around the block this summer for a total of 10 minutes - big mistake.

Transmission made a pretty bad BANG - I lost all gears except for 3rd. I limped home and drained the oil - nearly nothing came out. My current assumption is that the 3rd gear overheated and welded onto the input shaft. Currently i haven't taken it apart yet. Someone had to have drained it and not filled it back up.

So eager to get it on the road again, I scour on Pelican to find a used trans. Found one 6 hours away from me. Hop in my daily and do the 10 hour trip. 3 days later and 2500$ after I got a what the owner said was a "good" transmission. The seller never installed it onto a car so he didn't know. He showed me the email of the previous owner (a shop from the states) and he was the one who said it was a solid shifting trans. I trusted him.

Pulled a few all nighters to Remove my old trans and bolt up the new one. I noticed the shaft is very stiff to shift but hey - maybe its just tight because it is in better condition than my old one. Once I bolted up the shifter I knew there was an issue. I needed 2 hands to put it into any gear. Filled it with 80-90 and I took it out for a spin. Makes very weird grinding noises during operation. So someone wasn't honest about the condition. Just my luck.

Currently the car sits in the garage with the new broken trans. So my childhood dream has turned into a complete nightmare. My Plan is to take it apart again and rebuild it myself. One of my friends told me to just sell the car and move on. I also thought of taking it to a shop to rebuild. Another 2-3 grand would be thrown at that. At this point I am pretty devastated. One of those "never meet your heros" kind of deals.

Even if I end up fixing the car. I think its already made an impression that Porsche ownership just isn't for me. Or maybe this car just hates me.

Rant over. What do you think I should do at this point?

Peter Zimmermann · 07-08-2017, 09:14 AM

Drain your trans oil and examine/photo your drain plug magnet - that might reveal what the problem might be. Are you positive that your install is correct? Is it possible that the floor of the car under the center tunnel is bent/damaged; possibly pinching the shift rod?

ossiblue · 07-08-2017, 09:17 AM

IMO, you've answered your own question--air cooled Porsche ownership is not for you.

As you've stated, these cars will constantly need attention, parts are relatively expensive, and expertise beyond the DIY level will come at a premium price. Sorry to say, but you made two very large mistakes at the outset by taking sellers at their word. The cost to you was not only monetary, but it has killed your enthusiasm for what might be a very fun and enjoyable vintage 911. Note the word enthusiasm. That is the key. If you are not enthused about the car, you do not belong in the ownership category. These cars are a labor of love, emphasis on labor.

Take a break and reassess your position. We know little about the car except what you've disclosed in the OP. A solid, rust-free '74, can be a terrific car. The tranny issue can be resolved with money. If you cannot restore your enthusiasm when the car is up and running, you should sell because you will always need to spend time and money to keep it running and enjoying the experience. If you have major issues now, like rust issues to address or engine issues (you never mentioned if there was an inspection of the engine by a pro, but I assume not), it might be time to let it go. Maybe you are still lodged in the Japanese car "house." If so, you need to "move out" and understand you are now in a completely different realm.

Jeffreypang911 · 07-08-2017, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann

Drain your trans oil and examine/photo your drain plug magnet - that might reveal what the problem might be. Are you positive that your install is correct? Is it possible that the floor of the car under the center tunnel is bent/damaged; possibly pinching the shift rod?

Checked that area over and over. No issues there, completely wide open. I will drain the oil when i pull it next and check. Even when I purchased the trans, and had it on the bench I remember it being very stiff. I called a few of the local shops afterwards and said you should be able to shift it no problem with your bare hands. So perhaps a bent shift shaft is the reason.

Another issue is going side to side in neutral. when you push into 5th/reverse its very notchy. Looking at my old transmission, it would make sense that if the shaft is bent the little square tab isn't fitting into the slot for 5th/reverse nicely.

Just my observation.

Jeffreypang911 · 07-08-2017, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossiblue

IMO, you've answered your own question--air cooled Porsche ownership is not for you.

As you've stated, these cars will constantly need attention, parts are relatively expensive, and expertise beyond the DIY level will come at a premium price. Sorry to say, but you made two very large mistakes at the outset by taking sellers at their word. The cost to you was not only monetary, but it has killed your enthusiasm for what might be a very fun and enjoyable vintage 911. Note the word enthusiasm. That is the key. If you are not enthused about the car, you do not belong in the ownership category. These cars are a labor of love, emphasis on labor.

Take a break and reassess your position. We know little about the car except what you've disclosed in the OP. A solid, rust-free '74, can be a terrific car. The tranny issue can be resolved with money. If you cannot restore your enthusiasm when the car is up and running, you should sell because you will always need to spend time and money to keep it running and enjoying the experience. If you have major issues now, like rust issues to address or engine issues (you never mentioned if there was an inspection of the engine by a pro, but I assume not), it might be time to let it go. Maybe you are still lodged in the Japanese car "house." If so, you need to "move out" and understand you are now in a completely different realm.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Just hard to swallow sometimes dreams are better left at that. I think i would be in a constant state of fear driving the car. Knowing if a valve dropped or something, it would cost an arm and a leg to have it rebuilt, even if it was myself. I think enthusiasm is important. And I feel burnt out.

JossP80 · JossP80's Garage

I hear you! I've recently returned to air cooled Porsches after years playing with Porsche water-pumpers. After almost 15 years, I decided to re-focus my attention on the '76 sitting in the corner of my garage that needs an engine. I can't believe how things have changed since the early 2000s. Pelican has grown, the air-cooled "scene" has shifted... and the prices.

They are obscene!

As a life-long Porsche fan (and a frugal business person), I'm having doubts on whether I can reasonably justify the costs involved to own, maintain and run an air-cooled 911 today. That said, they are incredible cars to own, and the road to get the car in your garage fully sorted once you've purchased it is a very long, winding, undulating one.

Whether you want to take that rode is for you to decide. Good luck!

Daves911L · Daves911L's Garage

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Hopefully you can recover from it OK. The cars are too much fun to let a few crooks chase you away from them. My recomendation would be to slowly and methodically tear your old transmission down, and figure out what went wrong. Transmissions are not difficult to repair. They are a little intimidating, but just because they are unfamiliar to most people.

JossP80 · JossP80's Garage

I have to agree with Dave. Fear compounds when something is unknown or unfamiliar. You have two transmissions--tear into one and see how straightforward it can actually be! You have nothing to lose and a good knowledge to gain. I'd even wager that it will help you develop a connection with the car and give you the confidence to tackle other things that go wrong...

It might even rekindle your enthusiasm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves911L

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Hopefully you can recover from it OK. The cars are too much fun to let a few crooks chase you away from them. My recomendation would be to slowly and methodically tear your old transmission down, and figure out what went wrong. Transmissions are not difficult to repair. They are a little intimidating, but just because they are unfamiliar to most people.

Matt Monson · 07-08-2017, 10:32 AM

Did you take the inspection plate off the first gearbox. Could just be the little two prong fork that guides the main shift rod. Gearbox number one could be less than a $100 fix.

scottrx7tt · 07-08-2017, 11:14 AM

I just got through rebuilding my 915 after breaking 2nd gear. If you can pull and reinstall the transmission, you should have enough mechanical aptitude to open your transmission up, inspect and recondition it. I looked at the transmission tutorial until I was blue in the face before starting on Mine. It was much easier than I thought it would be. BTW, I just replaced what I needed to replace, and it still cost me over $1200

mrrolleyes · 07-08-2017, 01:34 PM

Take a step back and take a breather.

It seems like you haven't fully enjoyed the car yet. You can't fall in love until you know it's personality. And let me tell you smiles per hour is endless.

You will have kinks and bumps but as you smooth it out you will have car that's amazing and you know it's done right.

Regardless you will need to fix it and sell it or take a hit with a bad transmission.

Preface

I'm a new 76 911 owner and I had tons of buyers remorse after it came home. It's just necessary for me to own but I've wanted one my whole life. So I just kept driving it and driving it as much as possible. It's only been a few weeks and I've basically been daily driving it and for any reason possible and I sit it and night and just take it in It's now in the shop to get some prior bugs worked out and I miss it like its one of my kids.

Jeffreypang911 · 07-08-2017, 02:28 PM

Thanks for everyones encouraging messages. Lit a fire under my ass. Since I just finished pulling and installing - seems like I have to process down pretty fast if I hustle. Transmission is officially out again. 1 hour and 14 minutes! Still had all my tools out from last time so made it super easy.

So I have my old one to compare and see whats wrong. Ill post some pictures once I get the tail section removed - will appreciate any help!

mrrolleyes · 07-08-2017, 03:01 PM

That was quick

JossP80 · JossP80's Garage

Good for you, Jeffrey! Wasting NO time!

mepstein · 07-08-2017, 04:44 PM

Rule of thumb - if it's out of the car and seller doesn't have a detailed build or repair receipt, it's a core.

Ran when parked, worked when pulled, LOL.

Matt Monson · 07-08-2017, 04:51 PM

Jefferey, pull the plate before the tail cone!

Jeffreypang911 · 07-08-2017, 05:05 PM

Okay so pulled the top cones off. Played around with the shifters and such. I think I found the area where it is binding.

So this picture is of where the shaft exits the trans. This is of the transmission I just got with the binding issue. It is a 915/61 from 1977. But someone has been in here before because the midcase is aluminum...

This is of my old trans that is blown. But the shaft shifts fine. its a 915/02 from 1972. Notice the bearing.

So this bearing make it shift way smoother. but the one without the bearing is a snug fit against the case. So I think it was a design change? Regardless. I tried slipping the one with the bearing over my other trans and it glides much better. i can shift it with my hand.

Anyone make sense of any of this?

Cheers,
Jeff

Trakrat · 07-08-2017, 05:12 PM

great looking car....definitely worth keeping and getting that trans taken care of.
You are in an even better place than most, cause you have 2 transmissions. Just open them both up and use the best parts from each to rebuild!

Jeffreypang911 · 07-08-2017, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakrat

You are in an even better place than most, cause you have 2 transmissions. Just open them both up and use the best parts from each to rebuild!

Thats the plan!

Also check out these two forks. One is like off centered. not sure if this would actually affect anything though. Anyone seen something like this before? Probably swap over to the straighter one. But I don't think thats the cause of my problems.

sugarwood · sugarwood's Garage

Don't bail out. You got a bad apple. These cars can be very trouble free.
Stay the course!