Mike,
Greg Banish talks about having the injection timed so that it ends just before the intake valve opens to minimise the chance of the fuel going anywhere else and to maximise the chance that it will go into the cylinder it is intended to full atomised. He goes on to talk about how this minimises the wetting of the port and minimises the need transitional enrichment.

I had a look at my tune and the speed dependent table is set up to have the injection completed by 314 degrees BTDC (at 500rpm) rising linearly to 500 degrees BTDC (at 7,000rpm) for each cylinder. It is also set up to have any additional squirt for transitional enrichment (Fuel Timing Primary Make Up as Motec call it) completed by 120 degrees BTDC irrespective of the engine rpm.

I haven't compared those numbers above with my actual inlet valve timing but it does show that the whole injection cycle needs some time to occur and has to be advanced as speed increases to have it done and dusted in time for the intake stroke.

EDIT: I just saw the tables you posted. My injection timing looks more like the standard Rasant tune. Just for clarity, is the timing angle at the beginning or end of the injection? I'm guessing beginning!

I am not 100% certain, but I think it's at the beginning.

Weird thing is, until recently, I have been running the injection timing that the local tuners had inputted.. give or take 250 degrees before TDC. Which means, they are injecting, after the valve is open.

I had a quick chat a while ago with a local tuner (but not for porsche cars again) and he suggested I should change 1 column at a time, to be more in line with the Rasant pre-filled table, and to then log and monitor the VE. If I remember the conversation correctly, the idea was to see if the VE lifted or decreased, to find out where the motor was happiest.

Mike,

How do you do that short of going back on the dyno and checking MBT at the different injection timings?

Just thought I'd bump this and would like to thank everyone that's posted their maps. One thing I noticed while learning to tune mine is that, while it helps to copy maps to get started with tuning, each car really is different and what works for one may not work for you. I think I've run about 100 different tweaked maps using input from this thread and other EFI tuning techniques on the web and here's where I'm at right now.

For reference, my car is a US-spec 3.0 SC with a fresh top-end with 964 cams, CCM/Triumph ITBs, and stock heat exchangers. ECU is Microsquirt running 330cc Bosch injectors and Denso COPs purely via TPS-mode.

Ignition map
https://i.imgur.com/ZXnWBCh.png

Here is the igntion 3d view. I found 3D helpful for smoothing things out for both the ignition and fuel maps.
https://i.imgur.com/tcxhGl9.png

And finally my target AFR table, something that I wish I had earlier, as a baseline for autotune to go after and for EGO correction. I find the target AFR table more useful than the VE tables from others and would love to see more of them. Driveability for me at slow speeds (e.g. neighborhood, parking lots, etc) is something I struggled with for quite a while as well as cruise, I simply cannot get it to run smooth at anything above 13.5-ish AFR. My gas mileage sucks (~15) and I'd like to do better, but at the same time I'm not helping matters and can't help but to rip through gears every time I drive it.
https://i.imgur.com/I13X9MG.png

Many of you guys are running a lot of advance at idle (10+). Do you not find it hard to start and/or find it a bit sloppy on the throttle at low rpms?

Single plug about 8-10 degrees is good with a stock engine, but getting it to settle back down to idle can be challenging. I run 4-5 degrees with twin plug.

I like 5-8 with standard single plug. Throttle response is better and idle is very good. Startup is good too.

I find that 10 is a bit too much, but maybe thats just my preference

Bumping this thread hoping to find someone with an answer.

My map as supplied with the AEM uses MAP for the load axis on igniton and lambda.
I see others have their maps using TPS for the load reference.
What is involved in converting my map to using TPS for the load?

I gave it a go, and loaded it to the car.. it starts etc, but the tables do not seem to be referencing the throttle.. they are still referencing the map sensor.
I'll try to attach my 2 maps in case you can download and see what I have missed.

Hmm, turns out I cannot upload the tunes. So here are the links to download..

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1R3zD3Rct0pa_yAy83IZKXfbzS4xM4ggg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gmuj6UBDiGD3ujSxyfXuxel8M15su0gN

Not sure for 100% but try this:
Setup wizard
advanced setup
IgnTrim Input Selection
change either Ign_trim table x or y axis from MAP to Throttle%

used to have on single plug 5 degrees idle, worked smooth

Hey Mike,

To set your main VE and Ign maps to throttle % instead of map:

Wizards > Basic Setup > Engine > Main Spark Map Load Axis Selection = Throttle %
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VE Table Load Axis Select = Thorttle %

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1582557696.jpg

TPS with high compression and ITBs is the only way to go IMO. MAP settings are used a little for start up purposes but nowhere else otherwise.

Thanks
I did actually do that, but for whatever reason it still didnt work... then I turned the car off.. and on again, and then it worked!
I also found my ignition trim and lambda trim tables were still set to MAP breakpoints but the axis was TPS.. so I copied and pasted the break points from normal lambda and ignition tables. Not sure how this trim tables are used, if at all, but car is driving.

Obviously, I have not found any perceived increase in performance or drivability since it's not been checked on a dyno. I have guesstimated my ignition map using exampes from this thread, and my own map. What I found intersting looking at the maps on this thead, is the difference between how much timing Jayson and Shaun are using. Also, everyone else seems to have much lower timing closer to idle, where my map uses 15-22 degrees.. will post a pic soon

Here is my existing MAP based ignition table.. and my TPS ignition table.. was that a fair and safe conversion or can you suggest an alternative?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1582592226.png
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1582592226.png

try again

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1582592368.png
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1582592368.png

Mike, I'll offer my feedback that you can take as just one guy's opinion.

i think 15 - 20* is too much at 1000 rpm.
Also feel that your numbers from 2500 - 3500rpm are too high from 10% - 40% throttle range.

Mike, you can convert from MAP to throttle percent by using past logged data. Pass it through AEM data to convert it to csv. Then open the csv file with MegaLogViewer. Have the parameters for the table generated by MLV to be throttle% and put in the proper y-axis values to match the table you want generated for the Infinity. That way you don’t waste your previous tune. You can copy from MLV and paste it onto the infinity.

Hi John
I always welcome your input.
Does this work for ignition tables as well as VE tables?

Hi Shaun
I have driven the car with my 'new tune' and there is no knocking.. but I will head to a dyno soon. Since I have not been really opening up the throttle, especially at lower rpm, I guess I may not have been hitting some of those cells, and the car doesn't quite feel as punchy to drive.
However, at first glance, it does seem my AFR is a lot more stable.

John helped me a LOT last year with logging and formulas etc.. I still don't quite understand the formula language, but here are the ones I am using in Megalog Viewer.
When filtering out Wall Wetting (assuming my formula is correct) I notice that it removes a LOT of data.
Curious to know, is it worthwhile setting all wall-wetting tables to zero when planning to log? This way much more of the data would be used. Would this only affect running when opening the throttle quickly? How undrivable might it make the car?


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