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Project 77 - new build
Hi All,
Starting a thread to share a new build. From Australia, but sourcing most of the parts in California and currently building the car in LA @ Pro Motorsports. Darien |
Project 77 - new build
Before jumping straight into the new one, first a bit of history of how this all started, and pay homage to my outgoing car (which I loved,) but decided to sell to fund the new adventure.
It was originally a US 1977sc imported to Australia and converted to RHD, C2 widebody and had an 84’ 3.2 fitted. Perfect for me, and what became an all too well known case of slippery slope and track addiction. Picture below was as I bought it, and parked outside the hotel before my first track day with Porsche Club NSW. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516719556.jpg Over 5-6 years I obsessively developed it into what became a class winning car in two states, winning multiple sprint, motorkhana and outright club championships. Also some Hillclimbs! Most of the work was weight reduction, suspension mods with full Rebel RSR gear, smart racing ARB’s and custom dampers and retained torsion bars to keep it in class. Engine internals were stock except headers and custom tune, with short gears and LSD which livened it up so it felt like more than the 234HP it was. I did my own aero experimentation with spittter, flat bottom etc withsome inspiration and assistance from this forum. While it certainly was not the fastest car in a straight line (235kph max), it held its own around corners and handled very, very well. Bathurst 2015 http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516719869.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516719556.jpg Removed the big wing, splitter and de stickered for the new owner who has a few Porsches, and is going to keep it registered and still use it on the track. So it has gone to a good home which was part of my condition for sale that it not become a wash and polish garage queen... Just before sale http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516719556.jpg |
First item I purchased was a 3.6 engine I found in California.
For a brief moment I was going to stop there and just do an engine swap to replace the 3.2 in my current car. This decision resolved itself quickly as word was out my car might be for sale and it sold within 24hrs. So now I needed a chassis too. Back to the engine, It was fresh from rebuild and destined for a track car but never fitted. The rebuild was due a crank bearing, so it had a replacement crank with Pauter rods and ARP bolts etc, which should provide a solid bottom end. The remainder was stock specs. As the engine had sat for a few years, there was a little risk in the purchase so i had it checked and run on an engine dyno. The mechanicals were fine, but fuel lines and injectors etc needed replacing. I was fortunate to find a plastic induction off a 94’ for sale off this site, and it became the first upgrade. Danger -> This way to slippery Slope! I promised myself to stop there as the motor was fresh from rebuild and the plan buying a fresh engine was to at least run it for two seasons to get some value from it before doing springs, cams , pistons etc etc. While its probably ~265HP once tuned with some headers, i expect it will be a considerable step up from my 3.2 in HP and torque especially in a light chassis. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516795562.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516795452.jpg |
The engine came with a 915/61 gearbox which was removed running and had a Quaiffe diff. I was in the process of sourcing parts to strengthen and fit a cooler, close ratio gears and plate style LSD etc when I found a race prepped gearbox in the for sale listings....
Spec list: Mag case 915 gearbox (late '73 with externally replaceable mainshaft seal) Bell housing notched for 3.2/3.6 crank sensors late mainshaft late reinforced sidecover Wevo one piece bearing retainer Wevo internal spray rail and plumbing Weldon pump Guard gears Factory LSD with Guard internals set at 80% with 45# breakaway torque 108mm output flanges Ratios: 1st 11:35 3.18 2nd 20:32 1.60 3rd 23:29 1.26 4th 25:26 1.04 5th 27:25 .925 Box was rebuilt and regeared with only one race weekend on the box before the car was retired from racing. Basically covers the entire mod list i was going to do and price was reasonable (given the value of the parts alone). As it sounded to good to be true so I needed to confirm the reason for sale and who built it -> Answer: Tyson Schmidt No need to look any further, SOLD and now I had two gearboxes... (spare sold to Nathan this week) This was as a very fortuitous meeting as while discussing what I had planned for the gearbox we kept in contact and Tyson helped me out while I was sourcing a chassis... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516825255.jpg |
The overall vision was to build something adjustable and adaptable to run in everything from local Porsche Club sprints, to state level door to door events, gymkhana/motorkhana/autocross, hill climb and rally.
I enjoy competing in multiple events, and the different cars and people you meet, This is why i just didn’t buy a cup car, besides I really loved my aircooled experience and wasnt ready to give it up yet (and couldn’t afford both, and a two car transporter). That meant the chassis and suspension would be the focus of the build. I had found some excellent cars on line, particularly a beatiful 74 RSR replica, however the part that was missing was “the build”. As i enjoy working on my cars as much as driving them, heart over head decision was to find one i could customise and build from scratch, exit the budget and timeframe! After much searching, and in discussion with Tyson (given i was in Australia at the time) to ensure the basic chassis and existing roll cage was done right and provided a good foundation, this is what i bought. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516844046.jpg |
Cant wait to see this on the track . Not sure if u still remember me ( kevin from sydney )
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Hi Kevin
yes, those front air ducts on my old car are the ones i picked up from you a few years ago. Then i sold you my strut tops when i fitted ER camber max’s.... Hope your well. I saw a recent post of your the Aust NZ thread - look forward to seeing you cars progress. I might copy this link there for the Aussies who dont follow here. I’m planning to come to SYD in my new car for the Porsche 70th Bday event at Sydney Motorsport Park. Might see you there. Darien. |
I want a 3.6 for long time , but just dont know how i can get from state .
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Subscribed
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In between buying the engine and the chassis I had a bit of time to research suspension. I had been looking at adjustable dampers for many years, and made the decision on this build to go with a full coilover set up. This really provided a blank canvas and opened up the choices. Having done all the research and comparisons I decided to reach out to Motion Control Suspension, MCS is the evolution of JRZ/Moton, both well respected and proven brands, but MCS it the latest incarnation producing some fantastic, 1, 2 and 3 way dampers for Porsche specific applications.
A friend in Australia had fitted their dampers to road and track cars, mainly 944T’s and some 911’s and was really pleased with them. I value his feedback as he also competes and run Motons, so his unbiased feedback gave me a lot of confidence. What really sold it for me (aside from Jerome and Lex’s experience behind the product) was my first talk with Wyatt who’s role I guess is technical sales, really helpful guy. Then when working through the specs we had several meetings between Wyatt, Tyson and myself, and Jerome also called me and was interested in what I was building. He wanted to make sure the package we were putting together was right for what I wanted from the car. Pretty cool when the owner/founder of the company calls for a chat and offers his expertise. We ended up deciding the MCS 2 way dampers, with remote reservoirs would be best given the adjustability I wanted from high speed track to motorkhana / gymkhana etc. They also make their own front struts from scratch to custom specs for G series Porsches. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516883045.jpg This shows their interest and commitment in supporting the older air cooled cars. I got the feeling Jerome and Wyatt just like old 911’s. So after checking (and double checking) and signing off the specs sheets, the order was placed for a set of dampers and new struts. |
When i bought the chassis it had a damaged front cowl (PO said he forgot to lock the pins and the bonnet flew up while on the trailer one day).
He hadn’t got round to repairing, so as part of the sale we agreed to look at the options. Because the hinges had cut into and bent both sides, it looked easier to replace the whole panel than try and cut out two sections and fix it. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516921530.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516921552.jpg Found a 993 roof section from which the cowl section was available, and given I’m going to paint the car, now was the time to cut out and replace the whole section. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516921592.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516921510.jpg Much Better. Now need to find a 993 wiper mechanism. Added on the to do list.... |
Subscribed! I’m going to enjoy this!
Cheers... James |
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Me too! |
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After the front cowl repair, the car went to Pro Motorsports and I travelled to LA to meet with Tyson Schmidt and Brad Keegan in their Burbank workshop.
Spent a few days with the guys going over the whole car and discussing the build plans. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516999746.jpg |
From the moment i knew i was building another 70’s 911 the colour choice was made...
Its a bold choice, i have not seen many around, and none in Australia i know of. Anyone have a Karminrot coloured early 911? If so I’m keen to see it... Sprayed a colour sample back in Australia and brought it with me... I understand there are two codes, i have chosen the darker one. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517020278.png POR009 Karminrot http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517020303.jpg |
Good choice. I’m rebuilding mine and it’s going to be done in the modern version Carmine Red as per 991 GTS, current 718 and Cayman GTS
Will be great to see the two cars together. |
Hi Mothy,
Look forward to seeing your build too. The new Carmine red on your IROC should look good! More of a true red. I’m going with the original 70’s version, which i beleive has a little more purple (or blue?) added to make it darker, more magenta than red colour. Below is a picture of an IROC bodied car in a colour which i beleive is Karminrot. There are two different versions, this photo, and one in a different light/camera settings and looks more pink, or “Fraisey” http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517026782.jpg |
If that is your planned colour it will look great- definitely looks to have a purplish tint.
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This is from the Glassurit site, so yes it should come out similar to photo above.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517084218.png |
d. Loving this build. How fun, and the colour is uber retro cool.
Can’t wait to see you and mothy, probably in the windshield not the revision mirror given the quality of build design process underway! Really reminds me of the thought that went into my old 968CS build, the planing, complimented by good alignment and track setup advice, works.....! Keep the posts coming, more pics please Mothy....you got a thread or pics? |
Front suspension parts from Eisenlohr Racing arrived. I will be fitting full ERP 935 front and rear suspension system.
To get the adjustability and handling characteristics I want, have designed with Tyson and Motion Control Suspension (MCS) a set of custom front struts for this car. My previous 911 had custom modified front struts with some negative camber built in running stock control arms. As these struts are manufactured from scratch, I can make any adjustments i want. Will have 40mm raised spindles, bumpsteer and extra gusset to support steering arm and set with quite a bit of positive camber (+2 degrees). http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517085751.jpg Lengthened lower control arms will provide some improved characteristics while taking a larger tyre and correcting scrub radius. Extra benefit is removing a heap of weight and make it easier to adjust settings. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517085411.jpg |
Hi MC,
Was being tempted to buy a newer car, or a cup. But as you can see enjoying the process of building my own... really enjoyed the raw nature of my previous 911 (Richard @ PR Tech in Australia did a great job of the initial set up) and then over the years I progressively developed it from there completely upgrading the suspension so by the end ther was not a single rubber bushing left - was all mono balls and Rebel RSR fittings. This one is going to be way more extreme in every way! (and lighter) (with a bigger engine) |
There’s something special about you doing your own build.
You back in Syd for 2018? |
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Still based out of Adelaide. Will catch up with you later this year as I plan on doing a few Sydney events (Wakefield 4-5May and Porsche70th at SMP on 7-9Sep) Unfortunately won’t make Bathurst at Easter, while the build is progressing quickly, with shipping and customs etc it would be too tight so will focus on getting it right and be there next year. (Will be the first time i have missed Mt Panorama since i have had the 911) The big news is our new racetrack in South Australia is now finished. First race in March includes GT3 challenge with Shannon national round. Porsche Club SA have secured the full track for a club event in September. We have also got a new Porsche only race series starting this year which in being held at each of the state title rounds. Five events for the year with two at Tailem Bend, first one is June. Track final surface was laid in November and is now curing for March/April first motorsport use. Its going to be an epic track with lots of elevation changes. The extended circuit is 7.7km (nearly 5mi) long and has 4 main circuit configurations - see below. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517097235.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517097146.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517097688.png |
Chassis had a full cage fitted when i bought it, however i have done some substantial mods to meet Australian CAMS approval, while providing more torsional stiffness in the rear. The CAMS regulatory guidelines are typically based around larger diameter tubes (42mm main hoop). Not a big issue as lots of American cars are imported and used for competition in Australia, however they often use more tubes and usually require some mods, depending in the intended use.
Prior to making the changes, I consulted with CAMS technical department in Australia to get their input and approval. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517201898.jpg Two rear diagonals (red) were positioned very low joining the main hoop where the harness bar was located. They didn’t meet spec or provide much torsional rigidity in that location, so they were removed. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517200970.jpg Two new braces were installed to add rigidity and brace the top of the main hoop. The regulations on the attachment are quite specific and require they join within 100mm of the top. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517201025.jpg I also added a full X brace in the roof for rollover protection and its contoured to provide max clearance over my seat/helmet. While I’m not tall, you can never have enough extra safety and also leaves room for top mount air into my helmet. My father used to race speedway and was multiple state and Australian title holder, unfortunately he is now a paraplegic from a big rollover while carrying Aust #1. His helmet was impacted through the top of the roll cage, being on the pit crew i witnessed this first hand, so this is one area i wont be looking to save weight or $$$’s. (Once the belts lengthen on a high G shunt, the cage deforms a little and you allow for being upside down in the grass or dig into the surface a little, all the safety margin you thought you had disappears!) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517201076.jpg Have been in contact with CAMS technical (Aussie motorsport regulator) as part of the cage design and spec so it has all been basically approved in principle to make the log book process easier once it arrives back in Aus. While it only strictly requires one diagonal as a rear brace and one across the roof, i have done 2 (in a X brace) as it allows me to have it CAMS approved for second person and be rally registered, and makes it safer! |
Nearly caught up to current status....
After finishing the cage, needed to finish the structural work before it went to body shop for paint prep. My custom MCS struts will raise the front spindles as high as they can go with 17”wheels, but lowering a 911 properly means the back need to be addressed to ensure its balanced and the roll centres arent out Answer: raise the rear swing arms attach points and fit ERP 935 adjustable swing plates. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517258817.jpg This is Tysons specialty - custom fabrication and suspension geometry /set up http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517258644.jpg |
Moving the rear suspension attachment points up requires some secondary modifications as the higher position above the torque tube is where the rear seat pan is. This leaves to two choices, make some small reliefs or cut the whole area out. Given we were going so far already i decided to remove the whole rear seat pan. Makes it easier to do the reinforcing work and for future access and servicing.
Fabricated some rear cross braces to triangulate. This modified rear suspension set up will reduce toe change that the 911 are known for. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517306222.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517306263.jpg |
Where did “Project 77” come from?
Had a question on this, and by sheer coincidence my previous chassis and this one are both 1977 SC’s. They were also both converted to wide bodies, but that’s about where the similarities end. One was a 965 C2 look, this is loosely a 73RSR look with some 911R influences. While the rear of the C2 body work caught a lot of air in the rear guards and bumper, the early style rear bar on this one sits up quite high. It’s a very different look and there’s not much body work aft of the rear tyre at all (a bit like the 991RSR, :rolleyes: maybe that’s a stretch!) I say loosely as the 73RSR had no rocker fairings with a lot of air going under the car - I won’t be doing that so it’s really not going to look like an RSR clone... I’m not building it to sell, so not overly concerned with resale value as otherwise I’d follow the IROC or RSR recipe. My previous car was built on a similar principle, and supported my belief if it’s build to a high quality and consistently wins races and championships then the future resale value tends to take care of itself... Once released from the restraints of following the replica look, I contemplated adapting and customising some turbo rockers which I would normally make myself. That is not currently practical given my garage and composite gear is a 16 hour flight away from LA. The answer came while I was on my last visit with the car at Pro Motorsports and I saw Brads track car which had A.I.R winged rockers fitted, perfect. I would have spent many days with moulds and jigs trying to make something similar. Big body parts are so horrendously expensive to import due size and volumetric charges that the freight costs more than the part, so I made the decision to order a set while in LA So it seems a little bit of C2 DNA has made it on to this build as well.... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517311208.jpg This will help with future aero, and have a secondary benefit of limiting damage caused by stones etc coming off the front tyre. Patina, which Magnus made fashionable (and is guaranteed with wide bodies) is not something I really want too much of with composite doors and guards. Would rather focus my time elsewhere and not have to be continually repairing them. . |
Car has composite doors, so window net required.
Old one was time expired and when testing the seat position found the mounting tab for the top window net bar was exactly in the right spot to gash your head while getting in and out. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517314398.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517315482.jpg Seat has a halo surround so means you need to go forward and out. Locally manufactured in South Australia by a company called Velo. I had two of their seats in my last car which I liked the fit so I brought one with me from Australia to LA last trip... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517314729.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517314756.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517314939.jpg Chopped off the seat belt tab, and searched until i found something better. This “Joe’s” slide set up to secure the new Simpson net was the solution (should save a few stitches in the head, or damaging helmets...) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517314956.jpg |
I was actually just looking for coilovers for the G series, and MCS may be an option for my friend too.
Can't wait to see how your car turns out after it's completely built! It's looking like it's going to be a great track weapon! |
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Hi Eric, The machining for my struts and damper package was done in December, and the MCS guys assembled and dyno tested them over the holidays for me which was appreciated. It was quite a fast process for a full custom solution. Here they are delivered... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gif http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517344669.jpg |
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Just curious, but how long did it take from start to finish for them to provide you with your custom set? |
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Have used a 911 for both disciplines before with high level of success. While my previous car had custom built bilstein shocks that were matched to the springs there was no adjustability there, so limited to really use toe/camber settings to assist with set up. And 911 rear toe change is a pain so only did the front! So i expect this new set up to be an improvement over that once i get it dailed in which may take some time....:) Re the new struts /dampers The whole process was 6weeks for new custom struts. I believe it can be done a little faster but we spent sone time back and forth going over the specs with Tyson as its non standard build (these struts have some positive camber built in as we are running longer lower control arms) Contact details are Motion Control Suspension – Motorsport Damper Systems info@motioncontrolsuspension.com or reach out to Wyatt who I have been working with direct Wyatt@MotionControlSuspension.com |
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Can't wait to see more new updates! |
This update and purchase may be the most unusual one you might see from me, and going in an old 911
- a Voodoo 13 hydro handbrake. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517480256.jpg Im removing the whole e brake assembly from the cabin and rear trailing arms/brakes and fitting a hydraulic handbrake to the rear circuit. This bit of kit I discovered from Voodoo13 in the US is a real work of art, and one of the the lightest available. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517480345.jpg Ive never used the handbrake in Motorkhana’s before and found I can use the throttle effectively to get the back sliding around. However a fellow Porsche competitor who does rallies has fitted one to his 74RS two seasons ago and i must say having watched how effective it is, it represents a distinct advantage on some of our our tighter patterns. The two of us typically battle over 1st and 2nd in the championship. The non Porsches like Miattas all use the handbrake too, but I can usually stay ahead of them on the time sheets at the end of the day, proving a well set up early 911 is still a very formidable car. Ive watched people in newer Porsches use it fine, however I wouldn’t dare use the e-brake in my old 911 due the design and worn parts, as i would be too worried it would go over centre and lock on leaving me stranded mid course. When i was new to competition and 911’s and didn’t know this. I learnt the hard way during a 6 hr event where we did 1hr stints each and i made the mistake of putting the hand brake on rather than chocking the car, and being a little worn and hot it locked on over centre and i had to pull the whole wheel off and disassemble the hub and nearly missed the next stint. So in future i will have a hydro and be channeling my inner Ken Block !!! Will see how that goes... Let me know if anyone else has done this before |
^Um Awesome!
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Bathurst 12Hr - GT3 Race this weekend - live stream
For the Endurance racing fans
International Streaming - Liqui-Moly Bathurst 12 Hour Top10 shootout / qualifying on Saturday afternoon Australia EST Race starts Sunday morning Australian 0545 EST Race starts in the dark....! He’s a lap in the day light... https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/02/02/video-onboard-van-gisbergen-mclaren-gt3/ At the beginning of this thread are a few photos of my previous car at Bathurst. The two pics below is coming down the “Esses” after “Skyline” This clip is from today’s practice, where he stops spinning it the start of the esses at skyline.... https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/02/02/video-davisons-double-spin-mcphillamy-park/ Second photo includes “Mothy” in #4 from this forum. Our cars were quite similar, both SC widebodies. Now we’re both building new cars, both early 911 widebodies and chosen a similar colour which is total coincidence as we didn’t discuss it prior..... D http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517566959.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517567016.jpg |
It really is one of the best tracks in the world - has everything to throw at you then some more. And to think that most of the year it's a public road.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517569497.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517569497.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1517569497.jpg |
Woah, this is getting really interesting! Will the Voodoo handbrake get in the way when you're on the circuit? If I were doing a hydro handbrake setup, I have a feeling I'd yank accidentally yank it sometimes, haha.
Looking forward to the Bathurst 12Hrs, I love watching it! |
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