Open Ended alloy lug nuts?

[David 23]

Is there an issue with machining off the ends of Porsche alloy lug nuts to make them open ended in order to accommodate extended wheel studs?

[Catorce]

Yes! Of course there is!

Totally unsafe. Open ended nuts are made of STEEL or TITANIUM. Not aluminum!

Don't do it!

[bkreigsr]

Opinion, or do you have any empirical evidence?
Bill K

[Elombard]

Yeah there is a place selling forged Al lug nuts for motorsports use now.

Hard to imagine taking the end off of a factory lug nut would change the strength much. I have thought about this exact thing often. I love how Porsche was thinking about this small amount of un sprung weight when they designed these cars.

That said most folks switch to steel for heavy track use. I wonder if the factory did that back when these cars were being campaigned and that is why so many folks do the same?

probably tons of threads about this

[KTL]

Scroll down to the bottom

Wheels

Not saying that makes it gospel. Just pointing out someone doing it that sells them.

How is it unsafe? Does the aluminum lug want to "peel" apart if it doesn't have the top on it to contain the shank of the nut?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Elombard

Yeah there is a place selling forged Al lug nuts for motorsports use now.

Hard to imagine taking the end off of a factory lug nut would change the strength much. I have thought about this exact thing often. I love how Porsche was thinking about this small amount of un sprung weight when they designed these cars.

That said most folks switch to steel for heavy track use. I wonder if the factory did that back when these cars were being campaigned and that is why so many folks do the same?

probably tons of threads about this

open on race cars is so the scruits can check thread engagement

steel nuts are cheap, to save wait Ti is a nice alternative



Aluminum


Ti


steel

[group911@aol.co]

Not saying it's safe but I've done it for years. Cut near the end and you have the exact amount of thread engagement.
I started doing it on long stud setups so you can adjust space thickness depending on tire/wheels width setup.
Basically, I'm too lazy to change studs ever time I want to try new wheels.
I think some track classes require steel???

[David 23]

I wasn't considering it for the weight differences, nor do I anticipate heavy track use with these nuts, it is really about the aesthetic of utilizing the factory lightweight parts in a more personal style.

I don't see how they could be less safe if the same amount of threads are utilized. Fiske has a pretty respected reputation, I doubt they would sell these if there was a compromise in safety.

[Catorce]

Hold the phone - you are talking about purchasing brand new nuts that were ALREADY made that way by a reputable manufacturer versus taking an existing aluminum nut, which could be decades old, work hardened, and have all kinds of issues, and then cutting it down, while at the same time guaranteeing that you are leaving the same number of threads.

I don't buy it, and in fact, I think it's the dumbest thing I have ever heard when open ended steel lugnuts are like 25 bucks a set.

Hey, it's your life.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

Not saying it's safe but I've done it for years. Cut near the end and you have the exact amount of thread engagement.
I started doing it on long stud setups so you can adjust space thickness depending on tire/wheels width setup.
Basically, I'm too lazy to change studs ever time I want to try new wheels.
I think some track classes require steel???

There may be some that still require steel but Ti is now allowed in PCA classes

[David 23]

Originally Posted by Catorce

Hold the phone - you are talking about purchasing brand new nuts that were ALREADY made that way by a reputable manufacturer versus taking an existing aluminum nut, which could be decades old, work hardened, and have all kinds of issues, and then cutting it down, while at the same time guaranteeing that you are leaving the same number of threads.

I don't buy it, and in fact, I think it's the dumbest thing I have ever heard when open ended steel lugnuts are like 25 bucks a set.

Hey, it's your life.

Catorce, that seems a little harsh. I asked a simple question about if there were any issues with using the Porsche alloy lug nuts after opening up the end. I made it clear I wasn't interested in the weight difference from steel, nor was my intention to do track time with them, and it is clearly not to save money. My interest was in the aesthetics of using the original Porsche part in a personalized manner. So saying "I think it's the dumbest thing I have ever heard when open ended steel lugnuts are like 25 bucks a set" misses the point that I didn't want to use steel. The question is whether machining the ends off a Porsche alloy lug nut compromises the existing integrity of the part.

[bkreigsr]

Okay - so we're all going to die if we cut off the ends of our lug nuts...

As far as bastardizing a perfectly good production design - you have to look back at the dynamics of Porsche, the company, and see where they've been.
Their race cars start at some point as a compilation of parts designed or conceived for street cars, then taken to the next level; be it lightening, widening, acid dipping, drilling or whatever, it all involves pushing the limits.

Personally, I've been running chopped lug nuts for over 20 years (street and track) with no problems. I do torque them more frequently, but never have I seen anything close to catastrophic, of even 'lethal'.
YMMV
I'd love to see some empirical evidence showing otherwise.
Bill K

[mepstein]

Sure would suck to loose a wheel over lug nut aesthetics.

[Catorce]

Originally Posted by David 23

The question is whether machining the ends off a Porsche alloy lug nut compromises the existing integrity of the part.

If you have to ask the question and there appears to be some doubt as to the safety of the modified part, then I shall leave you to draw your own inescapable conclusion.

I am not trying to be a dick here. And I have modified more things than most people on this board up to and including making my own engine cases.

However, there are some things that ought not to be screwed with.

Oh, and I use the titanium open ended lug nuts on the race car. $110. Weigh close to nothing. Look like jewelry.

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

There may be some that still require steel but Ti is now allowed in PCA classes

PCA did (does) not allow aluminum lugs on the track except in STOCK classes. Understandably if you are always changing wheels and tires for the track and back to the street. Lots of wear and tear on the lugs.

I wouldn't feel secure with 8" wheels and R compound tires with alloy nuts designed for cars built in the 60s especially if modified. My alloy lugs are in a box in a drawer.

Anyway I think the gold colored steel nuts look cool with the RSR finished Fuchs.

[David 23]

Originally Posted by Catorce

Oh, and I use the titanium open ended lug nuts on the race car. $110. Weigh close to nothing. Look like jewelry.

I haven't seen them that inexpensive. Where did you find them at that price?

[daltvater]

Originally Posted by David 23

I haven't seen them that inexpensive. Where did you find them at that price?

Would love to know where they are $110 as well. This is the only place I can even find them for sale?
World Motorsports -Porsche - Titanium Lug Nuts

[Hellraiser]

In my younger (cheaper) days, I ran for this a few years without issues,
and I drove the ***** out of that car

it was because the studs were too long and I f*ucked the lug nuts up after installing
new wheels (studs came through the lug nuts after using an impact driver) ..

They can take some abuse

[plexiform]

Cant imagine this is a useful way to save a few pennies for your expensive car.

[jpnovak]

I have done this. I chuck them in a lathe and drill an opening hole in the end of the lug. This works well on long studs and leaves some of the end material. Never had an issue with them.

This does not change the number of engaged threads. This is still limited by the depth of threads in the lug nut.

I have also run open steel. It was more about what was available in my parts bin at the time. I personally do not see any issues with either one as long as they are properly torqued and the Al ones are inspected for cracks and deformation.