'87 3.2 performance upgrades

[gr8fl4porsche]

I know this question has been asked many times. I have reviewed the archives.
Still confused. Too many conflicting answers.
What performance upgrades have Carrera lovers used that actually made an improvement. I am getting ready to drop the engine due to a clutch replacement and am trying to prepare a game plan for additional work.
Also I am fretting over the bone stock for purists vs hi-performance for me arguement.
Any help would be appreciated.
Randy
'87 Targa

[Milu]

Rather than just bolting performance parts on. Decide what you want to use the car for, plan out what you want to achieve and how much you're prepared to spend to achieve it. All your mods have to work together Very often performance mods introduce new compromises into your car, these may be irrelevant on a track car or a weekend toy but a royal pain in a daily driver. Be very dubious about performance increases promised. My rule of thumb has become: at least double the installation cost by the time you get it working right and half the improvement promised, if you are lucky.
So what worked for me: Hot film kit, trick exhaust, big bore throttle body, JR air filter, custom chip, turbo tie rods, aeroquip brake lines. Fitting a 993 engine would have been more sensible and not much more expensive if I consider little extras like engine rebuilds.
Stock v performance. Stock is easier especially when you come to sell on and is a lot less trouble. But performance is FUN!

[Bill Verburg]

Whats your goal? Whats your budget? What legal(state, federal or sanctioning body) restrictions must be adhered to? You need to answer all of these questions before proceding.

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Bill Verburg
My Home Page My Pelican Gallery page My Porsche Owners Gallery Page

[Mrdi]

Bill has it right, check your local laws concerning smog regulations. The cost for RnR every time you need to get re-certified is a primary consideration.
It also seems the consensus is to do several Drivers Eds before you decide your car is too slow.

[gr8fl4porsche]

Thats really my question.
How fast should my '87 be in stock condition?
I can feel the clutch needs to be replaced, and the suspension is a little soft, shift linkage is not as smooth as it should be,
but how strong should the engine be??
Cruising in 2nd at 2500rpm - will most 3.2's pull hard when aggressively accelerated?
Mine seems to only feel strong over 4000 and almost too weak below 4000rpm.
I wish I had others around to compare to but I do not.
I understand that it is hard to describe how fast a car is, but I can't help but wonder if something is wrong with the engine - possibly ignition related. Seems like some times the power band kicks in hard over 4000rpm and other times just evenly accelerates. Recently replaced cap and rotor which were badly deteriorated - as well as cleaned up ground connection which was causing intermittent cut-outs?
I am getting ready to drop the motor -
would a valve job be a good idea at 83,xxx miles?

[Milu]

I'm not familiar with US spec 3.2s but on European spec it should start pulling hard around 2500 rpm and a lot more at 4000. It's possible your clutch is not helping your performance. Low mileage engine overhauls are a sore spot with me at the moment, (see other threads), but valve, guides, rings might need attention at your mileage, if you do a search on this board you will find how to check. Before getting into the heavy work make sure the basics like plugs, plugleads electrical connections etc are ok. Last week I couldn't get one car over 5000 rpm, cause: (I hope), poor connection to cylinderhead temp sensor.

[Clark Griswald]

The 3.2 is gutless at 2500 and comes on above 4000 as you observre. That is normal.

Pulling the engine is no big deal, a valve job is a big deal. Only do the valve job if you need one.

I would recommend getting to know your car better before you do any engine mods, learn to drive in the powerband when you want performance. The suspension and shifting fixes and uprades should be done first.

[88porsche911]

Do not do work that is not called for, you are asking for trouble and wasting your money. My 88 does the same thing. It does not pull until 4000. These cars are not that fast, my Saab9000 Turbo would give my 911 a good run. I have kept mine stock for resale value as well as the point that you get very little for your money when doing upgrades. I would not buy a car with to many upgrades. Just my opinion. Good luck either way you go.

[stlrj]

Have to agree that most 3.2's are guttless off the line, but that does not mean that it is normal or acceptable.

From my experience with my own late production 86 3.2, I found that the sluggish low end performance was caused by spring tension fatigue on the air flow meter causing the mixture to go way too rich and bog on acceleration.

My Carrera now feels so strong off the line that I often take off in 2nd gear, cruise around town at 1500 rpm and still feel the surge at 4000 rpm.

I think that the simple solutions are often overlooked in favor of very cosly experiments that do not work or cover up a problem with a band aid approach without truly solving anything.

Those who have diven my car are amazed how quick it is for being completely stock with the cat., stock chip and air filter etc.

Joe Garcia
Redwood PCA since 1976

[89911]

Why limit the 3.2 with being gutless? You could go down the line to 69 with cars that don't perform well unless higher rev'ed. 0-60 in less then 6 second may be easily obtainable in cars these days, but I'll take it in mine! (Of course having a Huntley Racing Mass flow kit, air/fuel ratio adjustment, high pressure fuel regulator, big bore throttle body, Autothority chip, SSI's and Free flow exhaust doesn't hurt!) Wait.....maybe mine "was" gutless off the line.

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8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

[juan ruiz]

GR,here goes my 00.02 I own a 88 3.2 carrera,and as you already mention they are indeed slow,it depends how much you really want the the car to move,1)theres simple modifications,2)some add ons,or,3) radical modifications so lets find were you fit.
1)Simple Modifications,air cleaner (k&n)subject to discussion some people don't think they work I disagree,
2)Exhaust, many on them in the market ,must of them i consider waste of money ,unless is hand made and custom made.
3)Chip,A lot of them in the market same as exhaust i went trhu 4 of them,only a custom one did wonders.
Add Ons
1)Headers been told by many good tunners theres nothing wrong with ours save your money,or have equal lenth
2)Mass flow many on the market some people are happy others are not hard to justify $2,000 to find out,i have hear storys that some times is problems with them so back to the seller back to you and so on.
3)Radical, Swap your engine,supercharge it,or turbocharged it depends how much cash you have.
Since i drive a 3.2 and fit into the radical group,just let you know my opinion.Regards Juan

http://MY88911.homestead.com/newwebpage.html

[89911]

Nothing wrong with a 3.2's exhaust? I think you meant to say there is nothing "right" with the stock exhaust. Mainly fails because of the attempt to run one catalytic converter asymetrically by use of a crossover pipe. The other improvement may be insignificant but this is the first and greatest improvement you can make to these engines.

[This message has been edited by 89911 (edited 10-07-2001).]

[juan ruiz]

Sorry i mean heat exchangers,my apologies.

[MarkY]

Originally posted by juan ruiz:
1)Simple Modifications,air cleaner (k&n)subject to discussion some people don't think they work I disagree,

Complete waste of money and its been proven many times over.

2)Exhaust, many on them in the market ,must of them i consider waste of money ,unless is hand made and custom made.

I agree completely.

3)Chip,A lot of them in the market same as exhaust i went trhu 4 of them,only a custom one did wonders.

I'm not sure what "wonders" is, but a DE course will probably do more.

The 3.2 911 was never meant to be a dragster. Why do so many people buy these cars and then complain when they can't out run some rattle bucket muscle car in a quarter mile?

Challenge the people on a track, its safer, and you'll kick their ass.

[gr8fl4porsche]

I think the reason everyone wants their 911 to be a dragster is because every time you stop at a light -the guy next to you wants to race and you feel obligated to kick his ass!!!!

But like I tell all my Corvette driving friends - 'you might get me 0-60 but I'll get you 60-150.

[makaio]

I was recently at a Drivers Ed event at Thunderhill. I met a very nice gentelman who had just purchased a 86 930 2 months before. He has multiple (lots of money)Corvettes, and this is his first Porsche. Anyhow, he kept asking me why my SC was so much faster than his Turbo. It turned out he was shifting his 930 around 3500-4000 rpms, because he was used to driving his Corvettes. I told him these cars don't even wake up untill 4000. After which, he proceeded to take it up to redline, on every lap and was much faster than my car.

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Matt Chamblin
78 911 SC

[Joeaksa]

Does not matter how much power you have until you can get every one of them to the ground. Do suspension and brake work FIRST then get more power to the motor. Shocks, sway bars and if you have the bux then torsion bars.

I chipped my car then did the SSI exhaust with a stock 73 model muffler and love the car. Revs a lot faster and sounds like a 911 should and is completely stock except for a bit higher rev limit. Still gets 22 to 30 mpg as well...

joeA

[Randy W]

3.2L engines are a good base on which to build a short stroke 3.4L ala Randy Jones treatment, or you could open up the intake and exhaust and Motec it like I did (see November Excellence). However a 3.6L ala Jack Olson is still a much easier route to excellent low end torque and power, if you have no compelling reason to stay with a 3.2.

Randy Wells

[SK]

The slow start off the line must not bother me too much (after all, we don't drive Corvettes)...although, the other day, I went for a drive with four of my friends...each in their Corvettes ('98 and newer)and me in my '85 Carrera. With the exception of the first 25 mph. at each trafic light, they could not walk away from my stock '85. They all could not believe that I could keep up and push them on the highway.

[Milu]

Originally posted by stlrj:
Have to agree that most 3.2's are guttless off the line, but that does not mean that it is normal or acceptable.

From my experience with my own late production 86 3.2, I found that the sluggish low end performance was caused by spring tension fatigue on the air flow meter causing the mixture to go way too rich and bog on acceleration.

My Carrera now feels so strong off the line that I often take off in 2nd gear, cruise around town at 1500 rpm and still feel the surge at 4000 rpm.

I think that the simple solutions are often overlooked in favor of very cosly experiments that do not work or cover up a problem with a band aid approach without truly solving anything.

Those who have diven my car are amazed how quick it is for being completely stock with the cat., stock chip and air filter etc.

Joe Garcia
Redwood PCA since 1976

Hey Stirj, as you seem to have studied airflow meters, have you considered hot film kits? It's basically the system used on 993. You can get more information from www.auto-amd.com HP improvements vary a lot from car to car but it does transform the car, and if the airflow meter is shot anyway.....