Starting problems... Need help...

[ASiDiE]

I have a 73 914 and have been having some problems with it starting. For the last 2 years or so it has worked great. But every once in awhile it just refuses to start. Its usually after I have started it up and drove it around for a bit then stopped. I then try to get back in and start it up and no go. Every time it does this the STARTER does NOT want to turn on when I turn the key on. (that 2 sec hummmm you usually get). 99% of the time all I got to do is let it sit for a couple of hours or over night and then it starts right up. I am having this problem right now and it's really making me mad. I have checked that battery leads, fuses in the engine compartment, jacked up the car and checked the leads on the fuel pump. Check all the fuses inside under the dash. But I still can't get the pump to start up. Can't see anything wrong at this point. Have any of you experienced this problem before? IF so please message me or send me e-mail. Right now the car is out of the street and haven't had much time to get out there to look at it in detail. Plus I hate working on my car when it is not parked on the garage.

IF you know anything please let me know.


Justin

[Joe Bob]

That two second hummmm, is your fuel pump. The problem starting is either a bad ground or the dreaded "hot start" problem.

First check all the grounds wires....corrosion never sleeps. If that does not correct the problem...there are kits that supply more juice to the starter, it is a bandaid approach but it will work until the starter solenoid finally gives up the ghost....

[ASiDiE]

Please explaing the "hot start" problem. Here is a bit more info... the starter always turns over its just not getting any fuel becuase of the pump. And it is coming down to a grounding problem or so it seems. Just about and hour ago I check and cleaned the leads to the battery just to make sure they were connected good. I hope it's not that transmission ground... I have been meaning to replace that. Right now I am just trying to move it off the pay meter

Justin.

[roadtrp204]

My car was doing the same thing, and it turned out to be the "hot" starter problem. It seems to be a problem common to both 914's and VW's. From what I have read about it, the problem is due to age, length of wire between the battery and the solenoid, together with heat cause the resistance in the wire to increase and the voltage to drop.

My cure was to use a Ford Starter solenoid. It does the same thing as the kit, just much cheaper and available at any parts store. The book "How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive..." has a detailed drawing on how to do this.

(1) Mount the Ford solenoid underneath by the starter. (2) Run a wire from the large battery connection to one of the large lugs on the Ford solenoid. (3) Run a wire from the other large lug on the Ford solenoid to the spade connection on the 914 solenoid. (4) The original wire that ran from the ignition switch to the starter now runs to the activation terminal on the Ford solenoid.

This basically make the wire to the starter around a foot long instead of ten.

Hope this was more helpful than confusing
Chris

[Joe Bob]

It is not just the battery terminals, it can be a bad cable....cracks that allow corrosion inside what appears to be a perfectly good cable. The trans ground strap is also important....

If the cables are an unknown age....might be a good time to replace them.

[mejulihn]

I re-read your first post and you seem to indicate the problem is with the fuel pump and not the starter. The "2-second hum" is the fuel pump cycling. The fuel pump is on the same circuit as the heater fan in the engine compartment. They share a common ground down in the left front corner of the engine compartment below the relay panel. If you are looking for a ground problem, this is where you will find it.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Check this link: http://www.914fan.net/fuelpump.html

It describes the fuel pump control circuit in detail. That should get you started.

Short takes: Check the fuses on the relay board. See if they're blown, clean the ends and the contacts. If you're desparate to move the car, jumper the fuel pump relay. I believe that one is the second from the rear. Jumper the front and the left-rear holes in the socket. (I think that's the left-rear; could be the right-rear. One doesn't have any metal inside the hole--that's the WRONG one.) You can use a fat wire, or a wire with alligator clips.

The pump will run the WHOLE TIME that the jumper is in there, as long as power is getting to the relay board and through the fuse. Don't leave it that way for long...

--DD

[JP Noonan]

The following things need to happen to start the car.

1. Turn the key to run, the fuel pump should hum for 2-3 seconds. If not then the link DD gave is the ticket. (In a bind I have a 15' piece of 12 ga wire with an inline 30 amp fuse and aligator clip on one end, and an insulated female spade on the other. With this you can by-pass the pump circut completely).

2. Turning the key to start should kick over the starter. The trans to body cable is the most common weak spot, but also check that the solenoid is getting +12V. To check the ground check the resistence between the starter and the NEG terminal of the battery.

3. For both of these things to happen the power must be getting to, and through, the ignition switch. When you turn it, does it feel like a "clicking" switch that smartly snaps back? Or does it feel "mushy" and "vauge"? If it does feel mushy then maybe the switch is at fault. With the key on run the blk/red wire on the coil (#15 or #1 I forgot, but it is the on opposite the condesor and tach wires which are blk/blu and green) should get +12v. In the run position the yellow wire on the starter should be getting +12v, instead of going under the car with a someone turning the key (the car might be in gear and roll over you) you can check the wire where it comes out of the relay board and goes through the tinware. Ign switches commonly fail, but are only about $14, adn PP has a tech article on replaceing them.

4. You need spark. Pull a wire and place it so that without YOU touching it the end of the wire will stay about 1/8" from a ground with the motor spinning. There should be a big fat spark when you turn the motor over. If not there is something wrong in the ignition system.

I realize I'm not the most coherent person in the world so if anything I said dosen't make sense, ask.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Actually, JP, the yellow wire only gets power when the key is in the "start" position. The coil wire you mention definitely does get +12V when the key is in "run".

--DD

[JP Noonan]

You're absotootly right. I should know better than to answer questions at 02:00 a.m. after driving 10 hrs from Atlanta with a 912E in tow, but I digress.

Also, I've seen the yellow wire change colors from yellow to yellow/red stripe on later cars with the starter interupt. The earlier cars ('72 anyway) had a thicker ga red wire from the battery to a bus block then to the ignition switch.

[ASiDiE]

I would like to thank all of you who responded to my message. Everything you guys said was a lot of help and lets me know what to do the next time around. I finally got it running after about 30 min of working on it. I first cleaned all the battery leads cleaning them up from corrosion. I then moved into the fuses in the car and cleaned up each end to make sure they were making good contact. I then moved back to the switch board on the left side of the engine compartment. I was pulling one of the relays and bumped one of the 2 fuses back there.... and THAT was the problem! It seems one of them was corroded and wasn't letting power through! I was glad it was a simple problem and not something that would have taken days to fix.

Thanks again for all your help!

Justin