Do I really need all this engine tin?

tmeracz · 06-16-2005, 02:16 PM

Like the title says...

I have it all off to replace an alternator. Judging by how much fun it was to take off, I just can't imagine what a blast it's going to be to put back into place. I especially loved the rusted-in flathead screws... that touch alone was an A+ in my book. Suffice it to say that my skin still reeks of penetrating oil.

So, anyone onlist running their 2.0 without engine tin? Any difference in engine operating temperatures? Bear in mind this is a SoCal car and we are on the doorstep to another hot summer.

Also if I don't put this stuff back on, is anyone onlist interested in it? Otherwise I'll just be welding it into a hibachi.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

You need it. All of it. Otherwise you'll massively overcool some spots of the engine (e.g., right by the fan) and massively undercool (i.e., massively overheat) the rest of it. You will also re-ingest air that has already taken some of the engine's heat with it and try to cool the engine with that. And you won't get much if any flow through the oil cooler.

Keep the engine tin. I replaced the slot-head screws with Allen-heads and have been somewhat happier when I needed to remove the tin again later.

--DD

Tidybuoy · 06-16-2005, 03:18 PM

You definitely do NOT want to get rid of any engine tin. That would be a complete disaster if you got rid of the tin and your engine would run extremely hot for a short while and then not run at all.

The engine tin might not look like it's that important but it is. The cooling fan blows a lot of air but the tin is what directs the air to the right places (ie., the cylinders & heads). You'll notice that the tin pretty much encases these parts and that is how the fan get the air to the right spots.

I would recommend that now that you've got it all off the engine, paint or powder coat it and clean things up. If you didn't drop the engine, that's probably why it was such a big project. It's much easier to do with the engine dropped.

Should you decide to toss the tin....I could use some 2.0 tin pieces. Send them my way (lol).....

Anyone else with comments?

Vern

Curt914 · 06-16-2005, 06:42 PM

Question for Dave

I will soon be putting my engine tin back on the engine(that is now out of the car). How do I find the allen head screws that you refer to. I really dont want to put flat heads back in.

Also, in a post made long ago about replacing fuel line, you mentioned putting the same plastic line that is already in there only new. I agree given how long the old line lasted.

Do you know where to get that kind of plastic line?

Thanks

Curt

degreeoff1 · 06-16-2005, 07:16 PM

DO NOT LEAVE IT OFF!!!! oh yeah, even though those llil pieces under the cylinders don't look important(between the cyl and pushrod tubes) ....they are

Josh

jamcleod · jamcleod's Garage

you shouldn't have to remove but 2 (or 3) pieces of tin to replace the alt. one piece is the section on the front to allow access from below and then the piece in front of the alt.

John Rogers · 06-17-2005, 07:10 AM

Those are "cheese head" screws. Try finding some of those at a parts store....

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

They're M6 screws, I forget the thread pitch. I went to my local metric harware supplier and told him I wanted something "exactly like this" (handed him the screw) "but with an Allen head". Bought a baggie of 100 of them for something like ten or fifteen bucks.

The stock plastic lines for the 70-74 cars are, as far as I know, now NLA. You will have to either fake it using the 75-76 plastic lines, or replace them with something like truck brake lines, per the tech article elsewhere on this site.

--DD

Joe Ricard · Joe Ricard's Garage

Running a tap in the holes of cheese head screws makes life easier next time. As far as getting them out? IMPACT DRIVER.
You don't need no tin as long as the engine is OFF.

tmeracz · 06-23-2005, 01:21 PM

Heh, OK guys, no hibachi then- at least as long as I keep running this air cooled masterpiece.
Riddle me this: would the engine survive a trip (about a block and a half) to my local car wash for a thorough degreasing with that tin off?
Or am I looking at rolling the powertrain up there on a furniture dolly?

bd1308 · 06-23-2005, 01:30 PM

i'd pop off your rear window and spray water onto the engine jugs so they cool down. I personally think it would work, if you started it DEAD COLD.

AaronM · 06-23-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tmeracz
Heh, OK guys, no hibachi then- at least as long as I keep running this air cooled masterpiece.
Riddle me this: would the engine survive a trip (about a block and a half) to my local car wash for a thorough degreasing with that tin off?
Or am I looking at rolling the powertrain up there on a furniture dolly?

I sure wouldn't do it with the FI connected... Wouldn't trust that stuff for a second with high-pressure water.

Also, cold water on a hot engine wouldn't be good.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

I've no idea how well it would survive. It probably wouldn't explode. It also probably wouldn't be real happy. And you'd have to figure out how to bolt up all of the FI parts without the engine tin there, then mask them off or remove them before you started hosing away... Carbs would be simpler, to an extent.

I'd consider taking it over on a pallet or dolly. You'll be able to get to much more of the engine without that pesky "car" in the way!

--DD

06-23-2005, 03:18 PM

Go to any VW bug shop, ask for cheesehead screws.

Tidybuoy · 06-23-2005, 03:33 PM

Why not just degrease and clean it at home. I just got finished cleaning an engine with degreaser and a good strong hose. It worked fine. I have also hooked my hose up to the hot water faucet for the washing machine and I have gotten things spotless.

That's what I would do................................................ Vern

tmeracz · 06-23-2005, 04:09 PM

Well, that's a possibility, but that grease has to go somewhere... that generally means the floor. Then my dogs run through it and track it into the house & the bed... then I end up sleeping on the couch because my girl is pissed...

Plus I live in a condo so that degreaser stinks up all 3 floors like nothing else. Mean Green seems to work, but it needs a few days to soak & I really don't have the time to disassemble this thing completely right now.

So I'll forgo the drive. Sounds like I'll be degreasing on Sunday but I'll lay out something disposable, like the LA times.

Anybody know of anything non-stinky to degrease with?
Thanks for all the input.

NoEcm · 06-23-2005, 04:20 PM

If I were rebuilding an engine or anything else with lots of dirty parts that needed cleaning I would go to Craig's list and look for a free used working dishwasher (a portable would be best) and use some of that water soluble degreaser in it to clean all my parts. It's amazing how many people in Seattle will give away their old working dishwashers when they are upgrading or remodeling.

I've found Industrial strength concentrated degreaser at Sam's club or Costco for ~ $5 a gallon. Mixed with water 1 gallon of degreaser makes 30 or so gallons of cleaner.

Connect the dishwasher to a hot water source, add some degreaser and wash parts. If you're washing steel parts you'll have to make sure you dry the parts as soon as it's done washing before they start to rust. If you bead blast your parts, washing them first will keep the dirt, grime and oil out of your bead blaster.

After you're done with the dishwasher you can send it to the appliance recycle center.

Look for your nearest major city and look in the free section:
http://www.craigslist.org/

tmeracz · 06-23-2005, 05:45 PM

That's a really cool idea! What 's the shelf-life on a rig like this- assuming that you have a used unit in your hands that works?

NoEcm · 06-23-2005, 07:06 PM

I would guess that the life of the unit would depend on its condition before you got it.

The green (I think they called it Avocado) portable dish washer that I used lasted for 2 VW engine rebuilds over the course of a year without leaking before I got rid of it to save garage space. Sometimes I wish I still had it.

The upper and lower racks were good for supporting the parts and the silverware container held the small parts nicely.

The most vulnerable area to this would be if there was a small leak in the dish washer's main seal the degreaser could also "degrease" the main bearing which would eventually lead to it's failure. It could go a long time with a noisy bearing though.

Most of the parts came out really clean with one washing. The really dirty parts needed 2 washings.....especially if your parts are really greasy and the degreaser gets over saturated. Overall it did a great job.

Make sure that you use water-soluble degreaser and keep your water hot. BTW, the degreaser at Sam's club and at Costco is in the section with the clothes detergent and the Janitor's cleaning supplies.

Good luck!!!!

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Hmmm.... There might be some issues with getting that grease into the regular waste water system. You might wanna check with the local environmental laws on that; it may technically be toxic waste.

--DD