How do I free a stuck engine.

[n2vsw]

I bought my first 914 last week from a guy at work. He's the second owner and has had it for 18 years. The car has been stored in his garage for the last three since moving to Texas. So I buy this beautiful car that's had the whole interior redone. The body is the best I've ever seen with absolutely no rust anywhere. So I take the Webers out and clean the varnish out and rebuilt them this weekend. Changed the oil, new cap, rotor, wires,plugs and a pertronix module. When I tried to start it, I get nothing. The starter clicked and she no turn. The battery was new. So I put it in gear and tried to roll it and she's frozen up solid. Rocked it back and forth for a while with a friend and nothing. I had noticed when I put the webers back on there was a white powdery substance in one of the intake manifolds. I cleaned it out and now I'm wondering if water might not have gotten in there. If it did it couldnt have been very much since there was no sludge in the engine oil. The friend at work says it's never been outside during storage and he is not aware of water ever getting into the engine. So now what? I could pull the engine and start taking it apart although I'm not too thrilled about that. If it's the cylinders that are rusted can I use the 1.7 bus cylinders? My other option is to really soak that whole cylinder with penetrating oil through the spark plug hole and see if I can free it up. Any suggestions?

[Jake Raby]

I have had luck on more than one occasion, with a mix of automatic transmission fluid, and Marvel Mystery oil.

I fill the crankcase completely full, and the cylinders as well..

Chances are that a frozen engine will never be the same..

[JP_in_STL]

This is not first hand experience, but I was told this by someone who I'd trust the knowledge of the aircooled VW.

It seems that our little aircooled motors get rather warm while being driven :-) When you shut them off, depending on the valve position it can leave a cylinder open to the outside air. The airtrapped in the cylinders allows moisture to condense on the cylinder walls as the engine cools. This moisture can rust the walls in a very short time. If the engine gets regular use, it's not an issue as this rust gets polished off by the rings the first time you fire up the engine. The problem lies if the engine is not started regularly, or even parked semi-permanently without the proper preperation as it can lead to pitting of the cylinder walls, frozen pistons, and eventually broken rings when you try to fire it up the first time.

If you're really concerned the best thing would be do drop the engine, pull the heads, and free it up by hand. If you're a little more adventurous something like penetrating oil or "Marvel Mystery Oil" shot inside the spark plug holes and allowed to set may free it. I've also been told that threading a fitting into the spark plug hole with a grease nipple works quite well. Just pump the grease into the cylinder with a gun and the hydraulic action will free the stuck piston. Cranking the engine around by hand will clear most of the grease later on after removing the plug. This is a bit messy, and will foul a few plugs until it all burns off, but is almost guaranteed to free that stuck piston.

If it was me I'd try some Marvel down the plug holes and let it sit for a few days. I wouldn't try using the starter to break it free as that will just chew up the flywheel if it's stuck really bad. I'd try it in gear with the plugs all out and see if you couldn't rock it loose. It may take awhile but eventually it should free.

If you've got the time and resources, dropping the engine and pulling the heads would be the best option to see just what is going on. A little coaxing is one thing, but seriously pitted cylinder walls will lead to more trouble later on with either a broken ring or maybe even a rod a few miles down the road.

Take everything into consideration and make your call . . .

- JP

[n2vsw]

Ok so it looks bleak. I tried rocking the car in 1st gear. I read somewhere that you can raise one wheel and put it in 5th which gives you more leverage, is this true? or do I rock it in 1st? Assuming this doesnt work and I have to pull the engine and take the heads off what gaskets should I replace while I have it all loose? The obvious ones are valve cover gaskets oil cooler seals and pushrod tube seals, anything else?

[mejulihn]

Hate to be cynical, but maybe that is why the car was parked for three years in the first place??? I do think I would try using penetrating oil first -- it's easy and cheap. Just don't expect miracles. Make sure the PO is being straight with you. If he had a catastrophic event before he parked it, you should know that.

[This message has been edited by mejulihn (edited 07-02-2001).]

[Kevin@ojai.net]

Here is a little trick I picked up after seizing my '73 super beetles engine from excesive speed and melting #3's piston.

step 1) Find some rope, a friend with a working car, and an empty road

step 2) Tie the rope on your car and his

step 3) have him tow you, get up to a good speed (25-30), and put it in a high gear (in the bug I used 4th, I thing 4th or 5th should work in a 914)

That should force the engine to break loose, of course this could break other things too... The only reason I did this in my bug was so i could do a compression test, and know what happened (found out i had a hole in #3 the size of a quarter). I don't know if you want to do this to your 914...

I would try the mystery oil and other things first.

-Kevin

[bowlsby]

Just drop the engine and open it up...its not that much work.

And you will most certainly do more damage by forcing it in any way.

[jabb]

I would soak it withe the Marvel/Xmission
fluid combonation for a few days or take it part. Do not force it you bend it or break
something. It is not the hard to drop the engine

------------------

• Joe A.
• 84 911 Targa
• 75 914/6 3.0

[Neal Colingham]

My 76 sat for 12 years, towed it to a shop and they soaked the motor for two days, drained of the fluid and it started. I don't know what they used but you could call around.
good luck
Neal

[Eat-um-up]

Ive heard that filling the oil copartment with Desil Fuel and letting it sit for a while works too. Just change the oil twice after doing it

------------------
Sweet Blue 72' 914
Check it out at
http://www.geocities.com/eat_um_up/914.html

[ejm914]

When I bought my '74 the engine had locked up from sitting according to the owner. A look in the cylinders with a bore scope showed nothing. I eventually broke it free rocking the car. Problem turned out to be that mice had been in the fan housing at some point and the damp nest material (formerly carpet and padding) caused the fan and housing to corrode together, locking the engine. Just something else to consider.

[DDS]

My engine started after having sat for several years, and I elected to tear it down anyway. I found that several of the rings were freshly cracked, possibly as a result of a mildly seized engine 'freed' by the starter or whatever the mechanic did who started it. Glad I took it apart.
If you do free it, do a compression test immediately. I'm with bowlsby, drop it and get intimate with it. You'll probably prevent the next problem.

Dave

[Jake Raby]

Stuck engines normally have rusty cylinders, to a certain point. If thengine does fire, chances are that the rings will be wasted from the rust chewing them to pieces..

Don't be suprised if the 914 makes a good mosquito fogger, as it will probably burn oil, if it does free up.

[n2vsw]

I'll take everyones advice and not try to force anything. I've filled the cylinders with penetrating oil so they start to loosen up. I'm going to take the engine out and if I'm lucky I can free it and get away with honing it and installing new rings. More than likely it will need new cylinders. For all the cynics out there, I bought the car from someone I work with and he didnt know it was frozen. He offered to either take it back or give me $250 towards a set of piston/cylinders. So does anyone know where I can get a set for $250?

[tracer]

Watch out for the sale P/C sets found in alot of the aircooled mags, they are Taiwan junk, spend a little extra $$ and go for a good quality set either here from Pelican of try www.aircooled.net, they stock good parts as well.

------------------
Thanks,

Brian
'74 1.8L in resto

[JP Noonan]

Got my 72 going after it sat for 8-9 years with PB Blaster "PB Catalyst". After using it I had 110-120 compression on 3 cylinders and 90 on one. After maybe 5000 miles or so I took out the motor and found the bad cylinder had bad pitting on the bottom of the cylinder.
IMHO
1. Remove the top tin and clean out any crap.
2.Clean up the electrical contacts between the trans-chasis trans-starter and the battery chassis.
3. spray in lots of the PB Catalyst.
4. After starting it do a compresion check. Anything above 120 and all cylinders within 5-8% I wouldn't worry.

Good luck, I agree, get the Mahle P/C's not onlyare they better quality but most of the bus Type-4 p/c's are much lower compresion. If the bottom end checks out with a crank shaft endplay check. And the valve springs are good yada-yada-yada you could go with a EBS big bore kit and make it a 1.9L for $350.

[Kevin@ojai.net]

Do you know if the 96's are slip in for the 1.7's or if the heads need to be enlarged, My engine is out right now and I am thinking 96's might be worth it...

-Kevin

[JP Noonan]

They were and should still be slip ins. However, the big bore 1.7L are notorious for head leaks even if you don't use haed gaskets and instead lap the cylinders. The better way is to

1. Flycut the 1.7L heads to accept the 1.8L BB kit. or even better

2. Buy some 1.8L heads which have bigger valves and use the 1.8L kit.

OTTOMH thw 1.7L heads have 39.3mm intake and 33mm exhaust while the
1.8L have 41mm int and 34 exh.
The 914 2.0L have 42mm int and 36mm exh.
and the 2.0L bus heads have 37.?mm int and <33mm exh (that is one reason they suck).

[hargray2]

You say that when you tried to start it,
the starter just clicked? This may just be
the common starting problem associated with
914's. Try a screwdriver across the terminals on the starter solenoid before you drop it.
That is of course after you let the engine
soak.

[n2vsw]

I want to thank everyone for their comments so far. I pulled out the engine last night, that was easy. Taking the head off is a major pain in the butt. I've taken off all the top tin from #3 & #4 cylinder The one piece of tin surrounding the oil cooler has me baffled on it's removal. I cant remove the head until that comes off. I'm thinking the fan unit has got to come out. Out of curiosity, if I get the cylinders out and take them to a machine shop, can they tell me if it can be honed and whether it will still be in spec? Is there a spec for wear? or can you only tell by doing a compression test? I can pull the head back just far enough to peek inside the #3 cylinder that I thought was rusted. It was at the top of it's stroke and just looks carboned up. So it's either another cylinder or just gummed up maybe? The PO re-ringed the engine maybe 8000 miles ago and had the heads reworked. Total miles on the car is 95,000 so maybe I'll get lucky and it just need some cleaning up. On another note the trans has started leaking around where the cv shaft comes out of the trans case. It wasnt leaking in the PO's garage so it's probably from having sat for so long in the same spot. Easy to repalce this I hope?