Removing body from subframe

ggenovez · 12-15-2014, 06:23 AM

Hi all,

I need to put my 914 on a rotisserie so I need to separate the body from the subframe and anything else that could be an issue.

Has anybody documented this process?

I would hate to forget a brake line or something and have it dangling or crashing down...

THanks

The Glademister · The Glademister's Garage

You should look at this YouTube video by Restoration Design. It explains exactly what you need to do to put your 914 on a rotisserie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiGB_MHBbls

ggenovez · 12-15-2014, 06:55 AM

Thanks Glademister. I've seen this video before, and it talks about building the rotisserie but not about what you need to do to separate the body.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

To separate the body, you use a sawz-all. Or a plasma torch. Or a spot-weld cutter.

The 914 is a unit-body construction, so there is no separate body. All the pieces are welded together, and most of them contribute to the strength of the chassis.

For repairing rust, the general process is to cut out the rusted panel, and weld in a new panel from folks like Restoration Design. For a higher-quality repair, people will find and cut all of the spot welds holding a panel on, and then replace the complete panel.

--DD

URY914 · URY914's Garage

Subframe? What subframe?

The Glademister · The Glademister's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by URY914

Subframe? What subframe?

I was hopeful the OP would get that concept by looking at the RD video. Dave hit the nail on the head though

ggenovez · 12-15-2014, 08:09 AM

Thanks Dave,

That's very helpful. Do we have any instructions on what needs to be cut off?

Sorry Glademister, I'm pretty dense. When someone says watch this video that shows exactly how to do it, and it's completely different of what was asked, I tend to get confused.

The Glademister · The Glademister's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggenovez

Thanks Dave,

That's very helpful. Do we have any instructions on what needs to be cut off?

Sorry Glademister, I'm pretty dense. When someone says watch this video that shows exactly how to do it, and it's completely different of what was asked, I tend to get confused.

I wasn't implying that you're dense. Perhaps that you did not understand that there is no true "frame" like on a '55 Chevy. However, I suppose one could remove both front fenders along the seams, remove the rear quarter panels along some seams and cutting (that would include the roof sails). You could remove the front and rear bulkheads off the pans along seams (the structure behind the bumpers). At that point you'd basically be left with the pans (front, rear and floorboard including the section under the fuel tank), the cowl section and A pillars with dash bulkhead, the fuel compartment bulkhead, the firewall and bulkhead above it, the inner segments and top of the sail and the inner and outer longs. That remaining structure would be very wibbly wobbly and not structural at all. I've seen posts and articles regarding removal and replacement of any of those components but never doing everything at once. Recommended procedure would be to remove one or two sections at a time to keep rigidity. I cheated on my car by keeping the doors closed but it's also highly recommended to put stiffening posts in the door jambs to keep the car true.

However, if you choose to take that car down that far (and all at once) we definitely want to see photos and progress. That's going to be a factory level restoration and extremely interesting to follow.

ggenovez · 12-15-2014, 09:56 AM

Glademister, you never called me dense. I was just stating the fact that I was dense. I assumed there was a subframe since I did not see a frame at all. I have a 72 benz, and the whole rear subframe is removed as complete section (6 bolts). Followed by the engine/ transmission and front suspension leaving you with the unibody.

So here is my dilema, I have several parts that are rusted including floor pans, possible longitudenals, and hell hole. I'm hoping to separate the body to put it on a rotisserie, something like the image below, so I can easily get to all the parts and do the work.

IF what I am asking for is too complex or there is a better solution, please feel free to share.

Thanks!

G

The Glademister · The Glademister's Garage

You're on the right track with what's been done in that photo. Doors removed with jacks in the door jambs. Front and rear trunk lids removed along with all the components in the trunks. Front suspension and steering rack removed. Rear suspension removed. Front and rear bumpers removed. Engine and transmission removed. You don't have to remove the steering wheel, column and dash but it makes it easier if you're working on the floor pans. The car is pretty much down to a tub.

A couple of areas you might want to inspect for rust...

Inside the rear wheel houses front and rear. There's tight spaces with seam sealer and undercoating that's a perfect breeding ground for rust. Especially on the backside of the door handle recesses and behind the lower sail.

At the bottom of the fuel tank compartment. That's actually a continueation of the floor pan that bends up and over the steering rack. If the car was parked outside there's going to be wet leaves and junk collecting below the fuel tank.

The headlight buckets and the pan below them. The buckets have a drain pipe that comes out through the front pan. When the buckets rust that pipe leaks into that space. You have limited access through the front sides of the trunk and clean those areas out. There'll be a lot stuff in there that promotes rust.

ggenovez · 12-15-2014, 12:26 PM

Thanks Glademister,

Unfortunately that's not my car. Mine has most of EVERYTHING attached

So it sounds like I need to drop the engine, Remove the door and install jacks in the doors, remove the turnks.

So how do I remove the suspension and steering?

The Glademister · The Glademister's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggenovez

So how do I remove the suspension and steering?

The front is easy. Take off the flex brake hoses on the calipers. Take the nuts off the strut top mounts. That will let the control arms sag and then you can pull the torsen rods after taking off the adjusting caps. Get the steering rod ends loose from the spindles. IIRC there's four bolts that hold the front axle to the chassis under the fuel tank and four more at the front under the trunk pan. That should drop the whole assemble. Before that happens you probably need to get the u-joint that attaches the steering rack to the steering axle loose becuase it comes out on top of the axle. Also, the brake master cylinder will need to be dropped first because it will be in the way. Might as well strip those brake lines (hard and soft) for cleaning and/or replacement. That should give you a stripped under-belly in the front.

The rear is even easier. Take off the brake hoses. Take the nuts off the shock top mounts. You want to have the CV axles off least the assembly be really heavy. I'd take the shocks off the control arms also. Those should be sagging way down and all you have to do is pull the large bolt that holds them onto the chassis. There's a bracket outboard that has allignment shims trapped under. Removing the bracket will enable you to pull the large bolt. Careful not to put too miuch stress on those pressed metal "ears" as those are prone to fractures. If you're going to be doing hell hole repair, you'll probably want to strip the hard brake lines on the passenger side, along with the other components on that side that are going to be in your way.

If you haven't already, read through TR's thread and you'll gain some really good knowledge on sheet metal repair. He's a master at metal fabrication and I wouldn't have been able to get my race car together without his help...

I've joined the ranks of the 914 club

ggenovez · 12-15-2014, 01:34 PM

Glademister.

That is great news. I was concerned about all that talk about a sawzall and no subframe but it sounds like it's very doable.

Thanks again for all your help.

Now I'm going to ask the stupid question. What did I say wrong that people assume I need a sawzall to mount the tub on a rotisserie?

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

You said "separate the frame from the body". There is no separate frame, so to separate the body panels you need a sawz-all. Or equivalent. (Also, the sawz-all thing is a bit of a running joke around here...

)

There is no set recipe on what exactly you remove when replacing rusted metal. The general rule is to cut back until you get to good solid metal. Either that, or find all of the spot welds that attach each of the affected panels to the rest of the panels, and cut them. Then remove the panels so you can weld in new ones.

The guys at RD have good products. Their videos are also pretty decent at showing you how some stuff goes together. The thread that Glademeister mentioned is also pretty good at showing you some of the typical repair methods. There are similar "rustoration" threads here and on the 914world BBS that show lots of details.

Note that the jacks in the door frame serve as braces so the opening neither gets larger nor shrinks. Either or both can happen when welding on the longitudinals in particular. If you wind up working on the rear suspension pickup points (the inboard one for the right trailing arm is notorious) then you should build a jig to make sure everything stays in the right place while you're cutting and welding.

It can be a lot of work, but in the end you'll have a car that you built a lot of with your own hands.

--DD

The Glademister · The Glademister's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts

It can be a lot of work, but in the end you'll have a car that you built a lot of with your own hands.

--DD

Totally agree with Dave!

And if you start a thread in this forum, post your progress with photos and ask questions (as you just did) - you'll be rewarded with a wealth of information and tips. It will be well worth the extra time and effort. It will probably help prevent you making mistakes or miss-steps and save a lot of wasted time and $$$!