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Timing issues

Hey guys, so I'm new to this forum, I own a 1984 porsche 944 NA, I have been going at my timing for 3 months now. So basically my timing belt broke, bent all my valves, removed everything sent the head to machine shop for resurfacing and revolve. Now might as well I changed the water pump, after putting everything back together with a 1.4mm thick head gasket because of machined head, I come to put the new belt on that I got from porsche dealership, and I just can't seem to get the timing right... I have trieddd everythingggg, at this point I don't know what's happening, I'm at TDC, all the marks are right, the 0T on top of bellhousing, and camshaft pulley mark, lock the flywheel, tighten the tensioner, I check the marks and I'm off half a tooth. Please helpppp guys I don't understand what's happening, that job isn't suppose to be that crazy.
Old 09-28-2018, 03:54 PM
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Go here for the mystery of the "half tooth:"

924Board.org :: View topic - How to set the timing and balance shaft belts on a 924S/944
Old 09-28-2018, 04:15 PM
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I know these procedures and this exactly what I have been doing, the only thing that I'm not sure about the thread you told me to read, is that is the a mark on the bottom of the cranck just like the picture, cause what I have been doing in lining up the notch in the bellhousing to 0T, if there's a mark under the cranck that's something I didn't look at...
Old 09-28-2018, 05:44 PM
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There's only suppose to be 2 marks right? One on camshaft pulley, and the 0T on the flywheel right? Is there another mark I'm missing for the timing or that I should be looking at?
Old 09-28-2018, 05:47 PM
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There’s a third mark on the flywheel, at the bottom that you can see through a notch in the bellhousing, but there could be 47 marks, you are still only aligning two things, the crank and the cam.

The problem you are having is the slack in the belt turning the cam as you tighten the slack out. Skip the cam gear back a tooth and a half and then when you take up the slack the mark will align.
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Old 09-28-2018, 06:36 PM
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Ok considering that is the issue, do you there is anyyyyy way possible that the head gasket thickness could be throwing the timing off, cause the stock gasket is 1.1mm and the one I got because I machined my hhead is 1.4mm so there is a 0.3 mm difference, and I know for a fact that I need that 1.4mm gasket cause it's the second time head is machined..
Old 09-28-2018, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherif123 View Post
Hey guys, so I'm new to this forum, I own a 1984 porsche 944 NA, I have been going at my timing for 3 months now. So basically my timing belt broke, bent all my valves, removed everything sent the head to machine shop for resurfacing and revolve. Now might as well I changed the water pump, after putting everything back together with a 1.4mm thick head gasket because of machined head, I come to put the new belt on that I got from porsche dealership, and I just can't seem to get the timing right... I have trieddd everythingggg, at this point I don't know what's happening, I'm at TDC, all the marks are right, the 0T on top of bellhousing, and camshaft pulley mark, lock the flywheel, tighten the tensioner, I check the marks and I'm off half a tooth. Please helpppp guys I don't understand what's happening, that job isn't suppose to be that crazy.
Watch this video and his companion video,simplifies the process;btw He posts on the 924s board...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBxOboQNQ6U
Old 09-28-2018, 07:55 PM
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Yes I have already watched that video, but that's for the balance shaft belt, my problem is with my timing belt it's just always off but half a tooth, and can't get it to perfectly time, I already did the removing the slack part, all by the book everything... I want to know if there's something not allowing me to be timed properly, I have all stock pulleys, and the belt I got is for 1984 porsche 944 and from the dealership, so that can't be wrong also, my camshaft is not broken, everything turns fine, the lifters are perfect it's the 4th time I remove everything and put it all back together, I got new valves, the pistons are not damaged, like I don't know what's causing that. I'll try one more time tomorrow again... but that's just unbelievable, I'm a tech and never since such a stubborn timing like that before even my buddy with had been in the trade for 10 years went at it, and can't seem to get it, he's as lost as me...
Old 09-28-2018, 08:16 PM
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1. No, .3mm isn't going to be a problem.

2. Your question about the crankshaft, the drawing is showing you the TDC mark that is on the flywheel. The flywheel is supposed to be locked at TDC and you use the mark at the bottom of the bell housing for TDC.

3. Did you actually follow the steps in the drawing, or just compare them to what you have already done? The drawing and its steps are perfect, and will give your the correct outcome.

What is happening is the tensioner and belt slack affects the camshaft timing a little bit. Also, you MUST rotate the crank shaft two complete revolutionist before you can accurately check the timing.

And honestly, half a tooth will not make any difference. Besides, in 1500 miles you have to check timing and retension the timing belt by Porsche's book.

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Old 09-28-2018, 09:55 PM
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Then is think that was my problem, I was using the mark on top of the bellhousing, I'll try again today with the mark on the bottom, is it the one right next to the starter?
Old 09-29-2018, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherif123 View Post
Then is think that was my problem, I was using the mark on top of the bellhousing, I'll try again today with the mark on the bottom, is it the one right next to the starter?
The revolution of the flywheel makes it that if you can SEE the OT mark, it's at TDC. If you can see the OT mark the mark on the bottom of the bellhousing will be lined up. There is no physical way possible for it not to be.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mocha07 View Post
He posts on the 924s board...
I post here too!


The timing marks should line up perfectly, if yours are off even a little then you could have the wrong mark since the early 944's have two lines on the flywheel. Only one has the OT next to it but it can be very hard to find. What that other line is for is unknown, so be sure to verify that your piston is at TDC and look for a mark on the flywheel there. Also the instructions that I wrote on 924board were mostly for the 924S which have the notch at the bottom of the flywheel that the early 944's don't have.

I hope that helps!
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Old 09-29-2018, 01:19 PM
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For sure, I know the 0T mark, and thats the one I've been using, honestly that's the only mark I have on my 944 and it's on TDC, I did everything as instructed and still the same thing, off by half a tooth, so like the cam mark is not dead on to the mark on the casting, and if I do turn it sliiightlyy to the right to line it up dead , my flywheel mark is not dead on to the casting mark in the bellhousing.. And that's what I have been dealing with back and forth. I dunno if it's suppose to be like that, always slightly off, but I just got that head done new valves and not trying to bend them again, so I want to be 100% sure that I got everything right before starting it
Old 09-29-2018, 01:47 PM
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With the OT mark lined up with the casting and the cam forward about half a tooth is how the belt should be installed. When you pull the cam back with the belt on then you will have the slack removed and both marks will line up perfectly. If they are off you the car will run like its down on power. Again, I must stress that you verify that you are using the mark at TDC because if you are using the wrong mark you will trash your engine again.
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Old 09-29-2018, 02:02 PM
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Yes of course, TDC on piston closest to the front end, I'm on TDC there and I can see the mark on the flywheel 0T, I do the half a tooth sequence, then remove the slack from belt and then cam mark goes half a tooth further than the notch in casting
Old 09-29-2018, 02:38 PM
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It shouldn't pull on the crank when you're just removing the slack. You will always have some slack that you have to remove due to the nature of these belts. When pulling the cam into place the crank should not move. The mark on the flywheel will line up with the outer/lower edge of the casting, not the center. So if its just pulling the crank to the outside edge of the casting mark then that is correct and they belt is trying to help you out. If it is moving way past the casting mark then its off and you'll need to adjust how far forward you are pulling the cam before installing the belt.
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Last edited by edredas; 09-29-2018 at 03:34 PM..
Old 09-29-2018, 03:30 PM
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Ok guys so, just did a discovery today, I've been going at it, anddd I found the second mark on the flywheel, that the doesn't say 0T and that is suppose to be seen on the bottom of the bellhousing... nowww when I I time my cam mark to the 0T mark on to top of the bellhousing, my timing is always off half a tooth, buuut when I time my cam with the second mark that doesn't say 0T on the bottom of the bell housing by the starter, my timing is bang on, meaning my camshaft mark is flawless with the casting mark on cam tower when second mark on the bottom of bellhousing can be seen in the bottom..... Soo now I want to know what do I time my camshaft too, which is the right one? The 0T mark on top or the second mark on the bottom?
Old 09-29-2018, 07:22 PM
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Timing my cam with 0T leaves me half tooth off, timing my cam with bottom mark leaves me bang on the cam marks? So what is it gona be ?..
Old 09-29-2018, 07:24 PM
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As I mentioned, your 1984 model should not have the the lower notch on the flywheel. That notch is about 3mm wide and only on 1987+ engines. These later marks look very different from one another. Your flywheel will have to identical marks but one won't say OT and they are easily mixed up. The mark with the OT is the only one that you can can go by on an early car and is why you must verify you are using the correct one. There should be no reason why the marks won't line up perfectly...
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:38 PM
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Well that's my issue right now, I do have that second under and I can only get the cam marks bang on when I line it up with the bottom notch, when do the same with the 0T on top, off half a tooth, I don't get it... I'm locking the flywheel like I'm doing everything perfectly, cranck is not moving when removing the slack. It keeps being half a tooth off, so I'm wondering if it's not the that bottom notch I need to line it up with cause it's perfect with bottom notch... I don't know...
Old 09-29-2018, 08:12 PM
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