HELP PLEASE!!! clutch problem

RaF944 · 12-23-2000, 09:42 AM

Ok first of all my car starts without having to put the clutch in...so it starts. But when the car is on I cannot put it in gear and the clutch gets stuck in....and i have to take it out with my foot...I dont know whats wrong...everything was fine last night and today i have a problem....can someone help me and tell me whats wrong.

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drew1 · 12-23-2000, 01:11 PM

Check the clutch master and slave cylinder, pull the starter & inspection cover & look for clutch disk rubber hanging things up, check the throwout bearing fork & shaft. Good luck, clutches are rough.

drew1

T86951 · 12-23-2000, 04:59 PM

Do u mean it will start in gear without the clutch being pushed in? My clutch pedal started staying on the floor and I would pull it out with my toe and it was a master cylinder that went back like overnight but it wouldn't start in gear with the clutch out.

RaF944 · 12-24-2000, 05:03 AM

thank you guys...but i dont really know anything about these cars...where is the master cyliner....i am only 16 years old.

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RaF944 · 12-24-2000, 05:04 AM

oh yeah and is it expensive to fix if i need a new master cylinder

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Rollins · 12-24-2000, 09:34 AM

I had the same thing happen to my car. It was like everyone else said, the master cylinder. I would reccomend you take it to your mechanic and let him take a look. Most likely if the master cylinder is your problem, you will need to put a new slave cylinder in as well. When it happened to my car it ran me about $350.

RaF944 · 12-25-2000, 05:22 PM

thanks a lot rollins

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T86951 · 12-25-2000, 06:10 PM

Like drew said, pull the starter & inspection cover & look for clutch disk rubber hanging things up in your clutch and check the throwout bearing fork & shaft. Hopefully it is only the clutch master cylinder. Thats all mine was. My slave cylinder was fine. I bought a master for $60 and put it on myself. I am 40yrs old and have fooled with cars all my life as toys so I am a decent mechanic and have really studied thes 944's for about 8 yrs now. If you don't have the tools and some mechanic experince, take it to a shop. A shop (if it is only the master cylinder) will charge you about a $100 for the master and about $50 to put it on. In a shop it would only take an hour or so. It took me about 3 hrs and I had to have a helper and did some cusing. Ask around your area and find a good shop. These 944's take a few yrs to start doing these things yourself.

Rollins · 12-25-2000, 06:51 PM

Yea I second what he said. Definitely check your disc. Depending on how old your car is it could still be the original disc. If you need a new clutch you can plan on about 1000-1500 depending on how much your mechanic charges. If you do need a new clutch put in a spring centered disc rather than rubber. I put a spring centered disc in and it feels a lot better. Plus they are a lot stronger.

drew1 · 12-26-2000, 02:59 PM

RAF,

The advice on this BBS is pretty good. I'm going to disagree with Rollins this time, though. I'm 51. I started working on my first car and found something I enjoy, and made a living at for a while. I made alot of mistakes though. I still think that if you enjoy it, at least check the master and slave cylinders yourself. Buy a 944 Haynes Manual (everything isn't covered and the printing on wiring diagrams isn't the greatest) and a few wrenches. A Porsche is a little more involved than my first Chevy. Until 7 or 8 years ago my idea of state of the art engine management was a Holley double pumper and Mallory dual point. But, you teenagers nowadays are sharper than we were in some things. Work on your car and you'll pick up as you go.

Before getting under your 944 get some jackstands, so you won't have the car come off that little scissor jack on you.

You clutch master cylinder is between the brake the brake vacuum booster and drivers side fender, sitting a little lower than the brake master cylinder. The slave cylinder is on the bell housing by the starter. Be sure to take the ground cable (-) off the battery if you remove the starter. If not you could have a big spark from arcing the cable on the starter. On cars these days that might mess up a lot of electronic stuff.

First thing I would do is check the fluid level in the master cylinders resoivoir. If empty you could have air in the lines and fill and try bleeding. If OK then get under the car and pull that plastic peice out of the bell housing. This is an inspection cover for checking clutch wear from the fork position. The cylinder rod should be in the indention for it in the end of the fork. With the pedal up, have somebody mash the clutch. You should be able to see the cylinder rod move the fork. When they let off the pedal, the fork should come back and the pedal come up. Since this isn't happening loosen the cylinder from the bell housing about a 1/4" and see if the fork moves back. Might be a good idea to measure.If in doubt, take the cylinder all the way out. Press the rod against a solid surface and see if the pedal comes back. If it does not, put the cylinder back in. If it does the clutch disk is probably shot. Mash the pedal and see if the rod moves to the fork. If it doesn't pull the pedal up and over the bleed valve on the cylinder, mash the pedal again. Fluid should come out now when the pedal is mashed. If it does I'd say the slave cylinder is bad. Spend some money and get some tubing wrenches for the tubing. I,ve rounded off fittings with open ends. If no or little fluid comes out the master cylinder is bad.

After changing a cylinder, you need to bleed the air out. Make sure to keep fluid in the resoivoir. To bleed the master cylinder crack the fitting on the line to the slave cylinder and have somebody mash the pedal. Close the fitting before having them release the pedal. They may have to pull it up the first couple of times. Do it until there is steady fluid with no air. On a hydraulic clutch slow steady pedal action seems best. To bleed the slave cylinder go the same way opening and closing the bleed valve.

A slave cylinder runs about $40 to $50, master cylinder about $60 to $80. I'd use good fluid, Castrol GT or ATE. All in all you can probably get cylinder, fluid, & tools for about the same as towing and having somebody else do it. As for towing, when a 914 clutch cable broke on one of my kids, I cranked it in 2nd & drove home timing the red lights.

If the clutch disk is gone that is involved so you might want to consider having somedoy else do it. Be ready for $600 - $700 for just a disk. Get a spring center, (924 turbo) like others told you, it might be a little rougher on the torque tube, but it holds up better than the rubber.

It is a rough job, thats why a nice 944 needing a clutch can be bought for $2000 or less. If you tackle it, get a partner who has some auto experience, a manual and at least one weekend. You,ll need a floor jack, allen socket tools, metric sockets, ratchet, pull handle , extensions, swivel, a internal 12 point tool to fit the CVs & a torque wrench. You'll have to pull the flywheel sensors, torque tube - transmission coupling, some of the exhaust system, CV joints, shift linkange, transaxle, starter, slave cylinder, shift fork, torque tube, before you get to the clutch & pressure plate. Use lock tight on the pressure plate bolts and that little pointed on the trans linkage.

Let us know you come out.

drew1

drew1 · 12-27-2000, 03:37 PM

Sorry Rollins I mean disagree with T by encouraging RaF to give it a try himself.

drew1

johnnybegood · 12-27-2000, 06:00 PM

drew1
Thanks for taking the time and effort to explain all of the procedures in detail about
how to fix things on porsches. Its people
like you that makes the bbs work well. Thanks
again for your support.

johnnybegood

drew1 · 12-28-2000, 01:12 PM

johnnybegood,

Thanks for the complement. I found this BBS while looking for help. I think it is a great BBS with all of the good members and advice given.

Now it's dark early, cold, and most of the time some kind of wet precipitation, so I use a keyboard instead of the wrenches I need to.

drew1

lm6y · 12-28-2000, 01:51 PM

I agree with you Drew. Get a buddy with mechanical knowledge, and tackle it yourself. If you get to a point that you aren't sure about, have your buddy help you, or post a message here and someone will bail you out. It also helps you understand the amazing amount of over-engineering that went into your car. Skinned knuckles last a while, but knowledge and pride in doing the job yourself lasts forever.

BRose · 12-29-2000, 10:03 AM

If your pedal is stayin on the floor and not coming up then you have a bad slave cylinder or a leak in the line that runs from the master to the slave or a leak in the master. I had to get all three replaced! A tiny hole in the metal line that runs from the master to the slave was the culprit. A BEAR to replace and the dealer wanted $175.00 for the line alone. See if any fluid is leaking under the car and check the reservoir level where the brake fluid goes. If its down or low that probably where to start first. If it is the clutch then welcome to the world of Porsches and a hefty $1200 - $1900 clutch job. good luck

BR 1985.5