tried to align motor with driveshaft for 5 hours today... please help

EricMcIntire · 11-06-2004, 04:58 PM

sam lin and myself realigned the clutch (using the right CAT this time) and we went at the project for a good 5 hours today to no avail, all the shaking and turning and raising and lowering and we couldn't get it to go.. the splines went in fine, its just the very tip that wasn't working out... theres less than an inch to go... I NEED help any advice? I want to get that part done so the next time he is available he can help me with all the technical stuff.

Makenzie71 · 11-06-2004, 05:07 PM

...you're doing something wrong. Do it right, and get back to us.

Seriously, look everything over and make sure soemthing isn't binding or that you didn't get something caught in between the assemblies. REally shouldn't be that hard...or n...you know what I mean.

AFJuvat · 11-06-2004, 07:06 PM

Ok, you are obviously doing something wrong - either your not lined up on the splines, or you just aren't going on the shaft straight. BE CAREFUL. It is very easy to bend the central shaft at this point.

At this point, you are kind of p*ssing into the wind - a lot of effort and nothing but wet knees to show for it.

What I would suggest, is to do the following. It seems like a backwards way of doing things - but it keeps everything out of your way until the engine is secure in the car.

Remove the transmission, slide the torque tube back, install the engine, then with the torque tube not attached to anything, you can slide it into teh clutch housing. Reinstall transmission.

AFJuvat

ae1969 · 11-06-2004, 07:19 PM

.......Didn't you mention on a previous post you did not use a clutch aligning tool....

Zero10 · 11-06-2004, 08:23 PM

Hmm, I'm not 100% certain on how everything goes together here, but this sounds like an issue I had on my subaru a couple years ago. Turned out to be the pilot bearing was getting in the way. Perhaps your problem could be something similar?

fast924S · fast924S's Garage

I was just gonna say what Zero said

bluebullet · 11-06-2004, 09:37 PM

mine had the same problem. I secured the bellhousing to the motor, attached the slave cylinder, and got up in the car while my friend held it below. I pressed the clutch pedal in to free the disk, and it slipped right in. Even though I used the alignment tool it was still a hair off and all of those parts have very very very little play if not none at all. By releasing the disk from the pressure plate, you can move it around until the nose finds the pilot bearing.

Granite 944 · 11-06-2004, 09:38 PM

1: are you using a engine hoist with levelor?

2: did you replace the pilot bearing with a new one?

Maybe wrong pilot bearing (ID to small?). Without an engine hoist, it can be done alright......but would require much, much more thought and fenese, with a little luck on the side. I've never even wanted to try another engine without one! Rental is like $30.00 or less. Good luck!

EricMcIntire · 11-07-2004, 05:03 AM

I do have an engine hoist, it does not have a levelor, I did not replace the pilot bearing. I did use a clutch alignment tool, the idea of dropping the tranny scares me, it most definately is the pilot bearing getting in the way. bluebullet, how did you secure the bellhousing if the pilot bearing was in the way? thanks for the help guys.. maybe all I can do is try removing the tranny

todd84944 · 11-07-2004, 05:57 AM

When you used the cat, were you able to move it in and out fairly easy after you tighten the clutch down. You should have been able to push it all the way into the pilot bearing and pulled it out without much strain. If not, it is not lined up. Sounds like you aligned the clutch and did not push the tool in far enough to align it with the pilot bearing also.

EricMcIntire · 11-07-2004, 06:03 AM

I took everything off, put the CAT in and then secured it all down with the 9 bolts... I'm pretty sure its aligned... I'd hate to have to undo it all again...

bazar01 · bazar01's Garage

If you decide do it all over, change the pilot bearing, you don't want this bearing to fail or make strange noises when you are done.

The TT shaft pilot journal I believe is hardened and should not get mushroomed from driving it in and out of the pilot brg. I would be scared of the pilot bearing condition though after 5 hours of trying to ram the engine/FW/clutch assembly against the TT shaft which I would assume were both not lined up in the first place. Pilot brg # is 6002-2Z or 6002-2RS and availbale from bearing supply houses for $7.

Also pull out the clutch fork and pivot shaft so you can clean the needle bearings and grease them since the bellhousing is already open. Clean and put anti-sieze on the TT and clutch disc splines. It will make the TT shaft it slide easily. It will also make a big difference in the clutch pedal feel.

ae1969 · 08:06 AM

... If you used a generic CAT then it can still be slightly off..... but close enough that you can force it.

Well you have a few options ....

1. PUll the engine back far in enough so you can verify that the CAT does indeed go in straight. If its not you are doing it again.

2. Check the condition of the end of the 'drive' shaft when you separate it. In some severe cases they do get scored and banged up. It could be slightly out of round.

3. If all looks ok. Then line it up......... put it in as far as it will go. Install the 4 bolts on the torque tube and start tightening up. She will slip right in. I have only had to do this once this way (Cause the tranny was in place!).

4. If this fails ........as AF suggested you are pulling the tranny. It is not as bad as you think. It will be easier to maneuver the torque tube once you have the engine bolted down.

*** EDIT: You know on second thought.......... it could actually all be just fine. The shaft is under pressure on both sides! Less than an inch does sound ok. SO I would do #3. I think you are fine Eric.

This may not mean anything to you...but it will to the others. When you swap a tranny out you must re-attach the coupler before you torque the 4 tranny housing bolts. In that case its at least a 1/2 inch apart easily.

If you want to verify add some grease to the sides (at the end of the part of the driveshaft that goes in the pilot bearing). Insert it in as far as it goes. Pull it out and the sides should be cleaned.

Sam Lin · 11-07-2004, 10:30 AM

Hey all, Sam here - the clutch alignment tool is the right one now, and clutch is aligned properly, tool was definitely pushed into the pilot bearing. As Eric mentioned he doesn't have a leveler, we had to make do with a jack and some blocks of wood. Drive shaft end is fine, it is greased as are the splines, splines are aligned, it's just the shaft end not finding the pilot bearing center. Release fork and pivot pin were greased before install.

It's a matter of lining the shaft up with the pilot bearing, and there's no taper there to help align. bluebullet, your idea sounds like a good one, otherwise the other sure way is to drop the tranny.

Sam

jim302 · 03:32 PM

How much grease did you put on your pilot bearing?

Too much will stop the shaft dead.

The last 944 clutch I did, as a last resort, I had to bar the engine over while applying forward pressure on the torque tube.

EricMcIntire · 11-07-2004, 03:16 PM

thanks for all the help guys I'll give it another shot when I have some time, most likely on monday... as far as the clutch thing... how exactly would I try to do that?

Taz's Master · 11-07-2004, 04:17 PM

Eric, when I did my clutch, I ended up doing what ae1969 reccomended, I snugged everything up by tightening the bolts a couple of turns for each until everything was flush.

It worked slick. But... when I replaced my engine in my Merkur, I used the same approach, and actually broke the cast iron flange off the engine when it turned out things weren't really lined up right. So if you employ this tactic, be careful, go slowly and be gentle, if things don't go together easily, don't force it, that aproach worked for me on my 944.

EricMcIntire · 11-07-2004, 04:18 PM

okay cool looks like I have a couple things to try... has anyone else had this much trouble in trying to get the motor onto the driveshaft at this point in the installation?

Granite 944 · 11-07-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EricMcIntire
okay cool looks like I have a couple things to try... has anyone else had this much trouble in trying to get the motor onto the driveshaft at this point in the installation?

Of the three engines I've put in now, it only fought me for a little while on the one I put in 2 weeks ago, since it wouldn't fall together like the others, within about 20 minutes , I stepped back, looked real hard at my setup on the hoist, walked back over to it, slid the hoist's rear end to the drivers side........Bingo.....it FELL in to place....didn't have to "force" anything. My suggestion......ALWAYS replace the $7.00 pilot bearing when replacing a clutch ( it will make you cry real hard, if this bearing fails soon after this much work). I still think the problem is due to misalignment of engine to the driveshaft. Good luck! Good things take time sometimes!

robm-951 · 05:15 PM

Even with a CAT, the disk can still be off center some because the plastic CAT's aren't as tightly toleranced as a the TT shaft. An easy way to fix this is to get to the point where the pilot shaft of the TT is the only thing not engaged, get a TT to bellhousing bolt started and then use a c-clamp (or hook up the clutch slave cylinder and use the clutch pedal) to slightly release the clutch disk. This allows the clutch disk to float inside the PP. Then while the pp is slightly depressed, simply wiggle it untill the pilot shaft portion slides in. This has always worked for me whenever I done or helped anybody with a clutch install.

Good luck,
Rob