Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 924/944/968 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Writer/Teacher
 
CJFusco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wandering Connecticut
Posts: 9,277
Garage
Send a message via AIM to CJFusco
Tell me about 951 computers

Calling all 951 gurus...

Approaching my 951 engine project, I have a pretty good idea of how all the hardware works; turbos are new to me, but the piping/ducting of a 951 seems pretty straightforward and easy to figure out.

One thing I can't even pretend to understand completely, however, is a turbocharged car's computer system.

To my understanding, the stock 951 setup features an AFM, a DME box, and a KLR box to manage the boost, as opposed to just the DME and AFM on my NA944.

Now, I know that a lot of people who want to get performance out of their 951s upgrade to MAFs (to replace the AFM and air box) and stand-alone computers... or rather, some kind of computer system to manage air-fuel-boost systems. Do these systems replace the DME and KLR? Or do they piggie-back the DME and KLR? (I am actually assuming that there are both methods available)

If I want to build a mildly-modified 951 engine, but don't want to break the bank (I am not necessarily looking for the cheapest option, but I don't want to spend a boatload either), what would be the most efficient/effective route to take?

As a talk radio caller might say, "I'll hang up and listen..."

__________________
Current Stable: Black 07 Porsche Cayman S: FabSpeed Maxflo Exhaust; VividRacing ECU Tune; IPD Competition Plenum; 997GT3 Throttle Body; De-Snork'd.2011 Acura MDX. 2008 Mazda 3. Gone But Not Forgotten:Garnet Red 86 Porsche 951("The Purple Pig"). Silver 09 Mini Cooper S ("Mighty Mouse"). Alpine White 83 Porsche 944 ("Alpine Wolf"). Guards Red 84 Porsche 944. Green 97 Volvo 850 Wagon ("The Viridian Falcon").
Old 05-12-2006, 01:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
seaboltman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Leonardtown, MD
Posts: 838
My understanding is that the standalone systems I.E. Megasquirt that ae(?) is using are just that. Stand Alone. Requires you to make a new harness for the car and everything, and you have the megasquirt box that will be the new computer which you can tune using a laptop

As for cost, megasquirt is dirt cheap, it just requires alot of work to get it setup properly and for our cars, there is no way to get the speed sensor (im going to verfy thats the part, so if you read this before i get to verify, and im wrong, sorry) to work with it.

cant seem to find the info i was looking for, ae will correct me soon enough if im wrong.
__________________
1987 944 - Wrecked turned parts car
1986 944 - Awesome Auto

Last edited by seaboltman; 05-12-2006 at 01:30 PM..
Old 05-12-2006, 01:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 845
Send a message via AIM to bluebullet
bah to megasquirt..thats for volvos.

Electromotive is where its at. Ive used those systems for years, and had no problems. Sure making the harness is a bit of a ***** sometimes, but its all fun in the game. You also need tuning for Ignition AND Fuel. Electromotive will do that for you. They go on ebay pretty cheap used ($800 complete for a TEC2, and the TEC3 Ive seen for as little as $1200).

This is opening a whole can of worms, I will discuss this with you online...its easier lol.
__________________
1985 944 / 2007 335i / 1987 325is / 1985 535i / 1999 528iT / 2006 X5
Old 05-12-2006, 04:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Deplorable Member
 
Porsche-O-Phile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A Rock Surrounded by a Whole lot of Water
Posts: 32,544
Garage
What bluebullet said. Get the Tec3. I looked at 'em a couple months ago and will eventually migrate to a standalone EMS on my Callaway car, but be forewarned they are not cheap.
__________________
'74 911 Targa 2.7 (in storage, hoping to finish "someday"), 2001 Mercedes SLK 320 (with a few AMG fun bits), '85 BMW K100, a few surfboards

Black Cars Matter
Old 05-12-2006, 05:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Writer/Teacher
 
CJFusco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wandering Connecticut
Posts: 9,277
Garage
Send a message via AIM to CJFusco
Quote:
Originally posted by bluebullet
bah to megasquirt..thats for volvos.

tell that to ae1969
__________________
Current Stable: Black 07 Porsche Cayman S: FabSpeed Maxflo Exhaust; VividRacing ECU Tune; IPD Competition Plenum; 997GT3 Throttle Body; De-Snork'd.2011 Acura MDX. 2008 Mazda 3. Gone But Not Forgotten:Garnet Red 86 Porsche 951("The Purple Pig"). Silver 09 Mini Cooper S ("Mighty Mouse"). Alpine White 83 Porsche 944 ("Alpine Wolf"). Guards Red 84 Porsche 944. Green 97 Volvo 850 Wagon ("The Viridian Falcon").
Old 05-12-2006, 05:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada, Eh?
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally posted by seaboltman
My understanding is that the standalone systems I.E. Megasquirt that ae(?) is using are just that. Stand Alone. Requires you to make a new harness for the car and everything, and you have the megasquirt box that will be the new computer which you can tune using a laptop

As for cost, megasquirt is dirt cheap, it just requires alot of work to get it setup properly and for our cars, there is no way to get the speed sensor (im going to verfy thats the part, so if you read this before i get to verify, and im wrong, sorry) to work with it.

cant seem to find the info i was looking for, ae will correct me soon enough if im wrong.
The speed and reference sensors are VR (Variable Reluctance) sensors. They are nothing special. The MS V3 board has one VR filter onboard, a second one will have to be built either on the prototyping area or using the MSNE Extra Daughterboard (which will the way to go as it has the extra stuff needed for map switching, EGT, boost control, etc).

The difficulty with 944s is the 132 tooth crank which is what triggers the speed sensor. That is consider too many interrupts (each pulse is an interrupt, meaning the processor gets told about each pulse) for the MS1 processor (needed for the Extra code) to handle.

The firmware and MegaTune has been changed to allow the configuration of that many teeth, but thats one of those be careful features.

Ill be testing a board soon that will divide the signal so to speak, to something more reasonable. One is on its way to me now.
__________________
Smokey - 1986 951 2.7 liter MID sleeve big bore with Vitesse and CEP parts, Link G4 Extreme, lots more.

"The first 50% of the project takes 90% of the time... The rest of the project takes the other 90% of the time."
Old 05-14-2006, 10:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Writer/Teacher
 
CJFusco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wandering Connecticut
Posts: 9,277
Garage
Send a message via AIM to CJFusco
AHHH! TECH-SPEAK!!

That all went right over my head. As long as someone can help me set it up once the time comes, that's all that matters...
__________________
Current Stable: Black 07 Porsche Cayman S: FabSpeed Maxflo Exhaust; VividRacing ECU Tune; IPD Competition Plenum; 997GT3 Throttle Body; De-Snork'd.2011 Acura MDX. 2008 Mazda 3. Gone But Not Forgotten:Garnet Red 86 Porsche 951("The Purple Pig"). Silver 09 Mini Cooper S ("Mighty Mouse"). Alpine White 83 Porsche 944 ("Alpine Wolf"). Guards Red 84 Porsche 944. Green 97 Volvo 850 Wagon ("The Viridian Falcon").
Old 05-15-2006, 06:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ae1969's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 4,530
Send a message via ICQ to ae1969
You have lots of choices.........

What edge was basicly saying is that we can't currently decode the stock reference sensors to handle ignition.

SO a router board, signal board... whatever you want to call it is being worked on. The beauty is that once it is figured out.......... MS will be plug and play.

We wanted to get MS running to see any and all limitations/advantages of running it.

As JustinL has mentioned.... MS is basicly freeware. It is constantly being developed. New features added on etc.....

You can go and buy a Tec3. I would recommend to buy it from Chris White. The system is a little confusing...... and for the price it should have a way better interface IMO. BUT for everything you need its 3K+ to get into that......... If you buy it from him it will work out of the box.

If you want plug and play stand alone... Link... is the way. Good price....... but you still need to rely on the ****ty stock harness.........


In the end build your engine........read read and read ......and then pick up a system. You have time.
__________________
Alex - PCA Polar Region - Boxster Muncher
86' 944 Turbo - Megasquirt - 326 rwhp/340lbft @ 18 psi SOLD
www.edmontonhomelife.com
www.edmontonrealestate.ws
Old 05-15-2006, 08:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Writer/Teacher
 
CJFusco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wandering Connecticut
Posts: 9,277
Garage
Send a message via AIM to CJFusco
Quote:
Originally posted by ae1969


If you want plug and play stand alone... Link... is the way. Good price.......
Link? From the Zelda games?

Matt (bluebullet) was raving about the Tec2 and Tec3 systems. It definitely sounds interesting, if expensive.

Let me know when you get the MS system right... I would love to hear how it all ends up...

__________________
Current Stable: Black 07 Porsche Cayman S: FabSpeed Maxflo Exhaust; VividRacing ECU Tune; IPD Competition Plenum; 997GT3 Throttle Body; De-Snork'd.2011 Acura MDX. 2008 Mazda 3. Gone But Not Forgotten:Garnet Red 86 Porsche 951("The Purple Pig"). Silver 09 Mini Cooper S ("Mighty Mouse"). Alpine White 83 Porsche 944 ("Alpine Wolf"). Guards Red 84 Porsche 944. Green 97 Volvo 850 Wagon ("The Viridian Falcon").
Old 05-15-2006, 02:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:38 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.