How Bad Did I Mess Up My Power Steering?

[rcecale]

I'd been having the common leaking issue of my power steering system on my 84. Going through quite a bit of as it was leaking away. I'd read early on where Dexron was the fluid of choice, so I had been putting nothing but that in the system until about 2 months ago.

I had stopped off at the local auto parts store to pick up another quart of fluid when something else caught my eye. "Lucas Power Steering Stop Leak"



I'm not sure what came over me, let's just call it stupidity. The guarantee on the bottle said it was sure to stop leaks, or I could get my money back...something like that. So, I picked up a bottle and followed the directions, adding it to my system, little by little, as the fluid level dropped. Man is this stuff THICK!

Well, now I'm at a point where my power steering seems to be AFU. It still works, but it emits such a loud groan whenever I try to steer that the car is practically undriveable. (I've read here that this groaning could be from an excessive amount of air in the system.)

Has anyone here used this stuff in their car, and am I looking at a complete flush job of the system to get rid of it, or is this even necessary?

I think, because of the leaking, I'll most likely be replacing the pump pretty soon anyway, along with the reservoir. Is there anything else I should be looking at for possible damage?

Randy

[legion]

The 944 power steering system is designed for use with ATF. I imagine this product is designed for a system that uses power steering fluid. I wonder if it has caused obstructions in the lines or bondes with some of the internal parts in the pump or the rack.

I do know that putting PSF in this system will cause it to spring leaks like a Tex Avery cartoon. Maybe this magic fix has some of the same properties.

I'd try flushing the system. I know the seals are a pain to get to, but some of them might have to be redone too.

[Aufenbahn]

My car makes a groaning sound from the PS when it's down around 5deg outside. I think its because the fluid thickens up at low temp. So if what you put in is really thick it might act the same way.

BTW If it's the pump that's leaking go to Rennbay and buy their rebuild kit - they have a video shows you how to install... Really not too hard to do.

[kuehl]

If you have a leak in your system (rack, pump, line or whatever) an additive (liquid, powder, gas, or whatever) will not fix it. For example, if the power steering rack shaft is corroded and the shaft is is torn, nothing in a bottle is going to repair the metal on the shaft or mend a torn seal. There are very few scenario's where a liquid in a bottle will swell an o-ring to fill a gap and most of the time that is not why your power steering system is leaking.

First, you have to pinpoint the source of the leak, such as the rack, the pump, a hose or such.

Second, you have to determine if it is more cost effective in the long run to replace the part or attempt to repair it yourself.

PM is you need more help.

[rcecale]

Appreciate the input.

I've repacked the pump and was able to get it to stop leaking AND got rid of the groaning.

The increase of pressure in the system, however, has cause other leaks to appear, or become worse.

Looks like my next step will be to replace the rack with a rebuilt one, as recommended by John_AZ.

Randy

[Zero10]

Since you are in the US, the cheapest rebuilt racks are from Autozone at ~$183 + tax. They are rebuilt by a reputable company and carry a lifetime warranty as well, the downside? They are painted black, badly.

I have one on my 951 and for over a year now it has been 100% dry and leak-free, and there is no play at all in the rack. I must say I am impressed. You can try rebuilding yours but if it leaks again you will quickly find the value in buying a rebuilt warranteed rack

[rcecale]

As I mentioned above, the newly re-sealed pump is working wonderfully. Unfortunately, it's caused several leaks to develop due to the increase in system pressure, back to normal. that being the case, I've gone ahead and ordered/received a new PS Rack. It's ready to go in this Saturday.

While the car has been sitting, waiting for the new parts, I've noticed another leak, coming from one of the lines. The one located just to the right (looking forward) of the radiator...the one with the squared coil. (Part No. 944-347-459-03-M100 here at Pelican.)



The leak seems to be coming from where the small section of rubber hose connects to it, (the smaller end, at the bottom of the above pic).

Does anyone know off hand what size hose this is? I'd like to try and replace that, and throw in a new clamp while I'm at it, before shelling out another $180+ for a replacement line.

Cheers!

Randy

[John_AZ]

Randy,

I cannot advise on the size but member bazar01 has insite on post 2:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/451719-power-steering-r-r.html#post4423414

I do have a couple of suggestions from my experience.
Replace the tie rod ends if rubber is cracked. Get a tie rod remover on loan at your FLAPS-not the pickle fork.
Before you remove the tie rods and ends from the rack. Measure from the rack to the end of the tie rod end. This is not perfect, but you will get it back to "close" on the toe-in. Reason? aftermarket tie rod ends are sometimes different size.

The steering coupler bolt has to be removed. Stick a BIG screwdriver in the groove to spread. Try to mark the splines? on the steering shaft to coupler. It makes assembly easier if it goes back together in the same grooves.

You normally have to get an alignment once finished. I came very close with the
"string alignment" method and my toe-in and camber were dead on. I measured prior to removing the rack. The measurement on the tie rods and tie rod ends is critical for toe-in.

GL
John_AZ

[rcecale]

I'll be ordering new boots and have considered replacing the tie-rod ends as well. They look pretty clean, but I figure, if I have it all that far apart, it sure wouldn't hurt. An alignment was also on the agenda, so, if I can get it close, I should be okay to take her the 8 miles I need to travel to get to my local p-car mechanic.

Bazar01 posts some good info, but seeing as the line I'm referencing is a return line, I think I may be okay by simply replacing the rubber part...unless of course the metal part of that line is cracked. Don't even wanna think about that, as that line lists for over $180.00. I suppose I can always take the rubber part to the auto-parts store and look for a replacement piece once the system is drained.

One other thing I've been meaning to ask is regarding jack stands and/or ramps. The write-up on Clarks Garage indicates ramps are okay to use, but it seems to me that being able to move the wheels a bit while doing the removing and replacement of the different parts may make it a bit easier. any input on this?

Randy

[John_AZ]

I used jack stands and had a little more room than ramps. Either way should work.

GL
John_AZ

[rcecale]

So, no need to move the wheels around at all? I guess it makes sense to leave them in the same position they were originally in...may helps in getting the initial alignment closer, before taking her to the alignment shop.

As always, John, thanks for your knowledge!

Randy

[John_AZ]

This is the system I used to check my toe-in and camber-from our tech section:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/home_toe_in/home_toe_in.htm

I used some MDF shelf material instead of the aluminum.

GL
John_AZ

[rcecale]

Okay, maybe I'm missing something here, but with the procedures posted in the tech article, one is able to align the toe-in/out from front tire to front tire, but how do you ensure you have them aligned with the rest of the car?

For instance, let's say I have my steering wheel centered and I've even installed a copy of your own tool which screws into that access port, into the steering rack to center the thing. If the passenger side wheel were to have a 1/4" toe-in angle, and I adjusted the driver's side to be aligned with it, the wheels would be aligned to each other, but collectively, they would be out of alignment with the rest of the car, wouldn't they?

We've all seen the badly mis-aligned cars travelling down the road that look like they;re doing the side-winder routine, haven't we?

Randy

[Dawg44]

I have no idea what power steering system this stuff was designed for, it is about the consistency of STP when cold.

I used it. ended up replace both the pump and the rack. I bought a rack from www.944online. Rack comes as a kit with a new fluid reservoir/filter, and boots so all the Lucas goo got gone with the installation. Rack has been leak free for approx 5,000 miles, seems a quality rebuild.

I suppose if you had a power steering system, a la Mercedes, with a worm and roller instead of a rack and pinion, the Lucas goo might be some help, but it is for sure not for use with a 944 rack.

I have pointed this out to the manufacturer. (Naturally, no response...guess I am just stupid?)

[John_AZ]

Your steeing wheel may not be accurate once finished. You have to put the put the centering pin in the rack. Then you take off the horn button and unscrew the big nut that holds the SW on. Reposition the SW and tighten the big nut.

If you want to check and do a 4 wheel alignment to insure the wheels are OK, here are a couple of links. If you plan to take it to a shop for the alignment you should be OK with just the front toe-in and camber set until you get to the shop.


http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm
http://www.oz951.com/public/alignment.htm
http://elantragtclub.tripod.com/elantra/id554.html
More?
http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/printpage.asp?article_id=60130
GL
John_AZ

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by Dawg44

I have no idea what power steering system this stuff was designed for, it is about the consistency of STP when cold.

I used it. ended up replace both the pump and the rack. I bought a rack from www.944online. Rack comes as a kit with a new fluid reservoir/filter, and boots so all the Lucas goo got gone with the installation. Rack has been leak free for approx 5,000 miles, seems a quality rebuild.

I suppose if you had a power steering system, a la Mercedes, with a worm and roller instead of a rack and pinion, the Lucas goo might be some help, but it is for sure not for use with a 944 rack.

I have pointed this out to the manufacturer. (Naturally, no response...guess I am just stupid?)

Hi Dawg,

By now you know to use Dexron auto trans fluid in the 944 series. Here is more advice from one of the Pro Rebuilders--Griffiths--keep moving down for FAQs
http://www.griffiths.com/porsche/steering/

Welcome and GL

John_AZ

[rcecale]

Okay, it's been a productive weekend...well, sorta...

Spent a few hours Saturday removing the rack. Had a couple of snags while following the instructions from Clark's Garage, but I was able to power through them.

Reading through those instructions, there was a comment that indicated it may be possible to give the tie-rod ends a few quick, sharp blows and bust them free. Well, didn't happen that way for me.

After trying the above method for a little while, I opted to spring for a pickle fork, as I was replacing the tie-rod ends anyway. No need to be overly concerned about messing up the tie-rod end boots. I managed to pop the driver's side free with this method, but the passenger's side was a whole different story. Damn near threw my shoulder out on that thing.

So, back tot he parts store I go to pick up the tie-rod end/gear puller. MAN! Should have gone this route in the first place!!! Put that guy in place, snug it up by hand and give it a few turns with a wrench and BAM! Made short work of that stubborn tie-rod end.

Here's a shot of the "right tool for the job" provided by TexasBlake:


Sunday was spent scrubbing parts and even cleaning off the underside of the car. Loads of caked on sludge collected from a lot of power steering fluid leaking for a long time.

In a drip pan, I soaked all the attaching hardware in Greased Lightening De-greaser. They were actually placed in there Saturday evening. Bolts, clamps, etc...all the bits and pieces.

Picked up a 12 x 9 sheet of 7 mil plastic Sunday morning and spread it out under the car. I then sprayed the underside of the car down with the Greased Lightening as well, after plugging and bagging all the open power steering connections. Left that to soak for a while and commenced to scrubbing the bits and pieces. Nothing like putting something back together with CLEAN parts!

After soaking the underside for a while, I dialed down the pressure washer and took that to the grunge and grime waiting for me. What a difference! I won't say you could eat off it, but it was definitely much cleaner.

Before:


After:


Now I'm in the process of putting everything back together and have run into my first snag. I have the rack set in place,, held there basically by a loose mount bolt on the passenger's side and the hard lines, up behind the spindle. Using the flexibility of the lines, I'm still able to move the rack a bit.

I'm at the point now to where I need to connect the steering wheel u-joint, and here's the snag. There is a notch in the spindle on the pump, that I remember reading needs to be lined up somehow. I saw that in a thread over the weekend, but now can't seem to find the thread. Is the notch supposed to line up relative to the bolt that tightens the u-joint to the spiindle?

Also, how far into the u-joint does the spindle gear go?

One other question that isn't really a "snag" kinda thing, but more of a methodology thing. The write up from Clark's Garage has you attach the tie-rods to the power steering rack, while it is still on the bench, using a vise to hold the thing in place. It seems to me it would be a lot easier to install the new/rebuilt rack onto the car first, and THEN attach the tie-rods.

Clark's mentions not wanting to put any kind of pressure on the rack istelf when tightening the inner u-joints, but wouldn't this be the procedure if you somehow ended up with a bent tie-rod? I mean, you would remove the whole rack just to replace the rod, would you. (Just to be clear, I'm talking about the rod itself, not the tie-rod ends.)

Randy

[John_AZ]

Hi Randy,

Yeah, pickle fork = sore muscle.
Cleaning is good. Easier to see future oil leaks

This is from section 9 steering rack from Clarks:
http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/steer-01.htm

9.0 - Rack Installation
First center the rack. This is done by removing the threaded plastic plug from the view port on the underside of the steering gear housing and turning the steering shaft until a red dimple in the rack gear is in alignment with the view port. (see photo No. 3)
Once in alignment, thread a 10x1x35+/-mm bolt into the view port to lock the rack in the centered position. The bolt should have a smooth tapered end to engage the dimple. (fire up the grinder!)

TIP

Instead of fabricating a locking bolt with a tapered end, you may want to try inserting a ball bearing into the view port hole to engage the dimple and threading an unaltered bolt into the hole to lock the ball bearing in place. This tip is provided courtesy of John Smaardyk.

With this accomplished, place the rack assembly into position on the passenger side of the car and finger tighten one of the passenger side mounting bolts. Allow the driver's side to hang down slightly.
Next, reach in the window of the car and turn the steering wheel until it is straight. You may want to have and assistant hold the steering wheel straight for you. (my daughter did an excellent job!)
At this point, the open side of the universal clamp should be in generally good alignment with the flat side of the steering gear shaft.
Align the split in the clamp exactly in the center of the shaft flat. If you don't, the clamp bolt cannot be installed.
With the steering column universal joint clamp positioned over the steering gear shaft, push the rack assembly up into position. The universal clamp will now slide down the steering gear shaft where it belongs. From Clarks...

Is this the point you are at or have you figured it out? I may not be much of help here.

How far does it go? Can you see up the shaft where the original stopped? I had marked mine and slid it in.

Your last Q about putting the tie rods on while rack is in a vice is necessary to get the full 52 pounds of torque on the fastener. Section 6 & 7. You are correct on what to do if you do not pull the rack. The PS rack shaft cannot move or you will crush important seals when you attach the tie rod shafts.

GL and nice work so far.
John_AZ

[rcecale]

Originally Posted by rcecale

I'm at the point now to where I need to connect the steering wheel u-joint, and here's the snag. There is a notch in the spindle on the pump, that I remember reading needs to be lined up somehow. I saw that in a thread over the weekend, but now can't seem to find the thread. Is the notch supposed to line up relative to the bolt that tightens the u-joint to the spiindle?

Also, how far into the u-joint does the spindle gear go?

Walked away for a bit, took some time to ponder it and then took another look at the procedures at Clark's. Well, I'll be damned! Says right there, in steps 9.5, 9.6 and 9.7.

9.5 At this point, the open side of the universal clamp should be in generally good alignment with the flat side of the steering gear shaft.

9.6 Align the split in the clamp exactly in the center of the shaft flat. If you don't, the clamp bolt cannot be installed.

9.7With the steering column universal joint clamp positioned over the steering gear shaft, push the rack assembly up into position. The universal clamp will now slide down the steering gear shaft where it belongs.

New rack is now installed, but I still have a few things to accomplish before she's finished. Sway bar still needs to go in, shouldn't be any problems there.

Having a little problem with the new tie-rod ends though. Bought new ones for this job, and the new ones are the kind with no cotter-pin. Instead there is a self locking nut that gets installed. The problem I'm having is tightening the self-locking nut. I can get the tie-rod ends in place and have tried extending and shortening the rods themselves to put enough pressure on the ends but the nut still turn the studs in place. Anyone know of a way to tighten these nuts?

Randy

[rcecale]

Originally Posted by John_AZ

Hi Randy,

Yeah, pickle fork = sore muscle.

Hah!, John, you're not exagerating in the least! I swear, I felt like I had spent several hours in the gym doing bench presses! LOL

Originally Posted by John_AZ

Cleaning is good. Easier to see future oil leaks
John_AZ

It's nice to be able to work in this area without getting all grungy the instant I touch something!

Cheers!

Randy