can't remove my speed sensor

[callmethewander]

Am I missing something? I removed the retaining bolt and after some effort am able to move the sensor back and forth but it will not come out at all. I really don't want to remove the mounting bracket as that creates a whole other problem, (getting the spacing right). what else can i do? thx

[jmd_forest]

Soak with PB Blaster. Let it soak overnight. Wiggle them around a bit. Soak some more. Wait some more. More wiggling. Repeat as necessary until the sensors will come out. Forcing them will require the purchase of new sensors. Been there....done that.

jmd_forest

[callmethewander]

ok JMD, I'll do that, i already got it to wiggle back and forth a bit, but it won't budge outward at all, funny thing is, the referaence sensor comes out relatively easy. Thx, I'm hoping this is the only reason the car won't start, I did a resistance test and the sensior is bad, so...by the way this is my '87 na that I bought not running.

[Marajit]

I recently had the same problem on my 83. After numerous tries the sensor still didn't budge, although I could wiggle it some. I was finally able to remove it by slipping a medium-sized hose clamp right under the sensor's plastic, right under the place where it joins the wire, in order to form a loop which would allow me better purchase. I then stood on top of the engine and braced myself, grabbed the hose clamp "handle" and pulled.

It took two tries, but it came out neatly.

Question> does it do the sensors any harm to coat them with anti-seize when replacing them back in the bracket?

I certainly hope not...

[callmethewander]

Thx Marajit, that sounds like a good idea I'll give it a try. I love original innovative ideas like that, sounds like it might even work!

[h8tr_]

if you have a good drill with a metal tip, drill it out.

[callmethewander]

tried the hose clamp, didn't work, there's no way to fit drill in there past everything and between the engine and firewall

[jpk]

Unfortunately, it's a tight tolerance and the tip of the sensor is slightly exposed. It starts to corrode a bit and expands, and when that happens, there's no way you can remove it by normal means. If the sensor rotates back and forth but won't come out, that's likely what's happened. Your best bet at this point is to remove the bracket.
It's not that difficult to get the spacing set back correctly; you can hot-glue a dime to the bottom of the new sensor, put it in the bracket and re-install the bracket. Once it's secure, remove your sensor and take the dime off; then put it back in.

[callmethewander]

thx John, Looks like that's what I'll have to do.

[SolReaver]

Congratulations, those little gems are a real pain to remove. Removing the bracket may be an option. I drove mine out from underneath. To get room you might want to gently move the wires that run over that dark and inaccessible area of the engine. Some have advocated removing the oil filler tube to get into it from the side (I haven't done this) Better than the dime trick is to glue some plastic card piece on the sensor that is about the thickness you want. OR...Some card stock like a matchbook. Since either is soft enough to not damage the flywheel...leave it in.

Gently wiggling the sensor is the advocated method. HAHAHA, boy! that is a lot of fun. I cut a slot in a pipe that allowed me to wiggle the sensor, but they refused to pull up. They are just stubborn like that. I have also used a long screwdriver with the tip bent (heat with a torch and quench in oil) to hook and pull on that little bit of sensor that hangs over the edge.

The power drill has been done. If you go this route...you may break more than you fix so please be careful.

Why are you replacing the sensors again? Sometimes a "bad " sensor is more a result of a bad connector than the actual sensor.

[callmethewander]

Well, I checked everything else I cloud think of including the ECU (DME) and all else seems good. I do not have an oscilator (or whatever it's called) to check the signal from the sensor but it didn't read good with an ohmmeter so I figured I would change it. I also didn't know what I would be getting into

[SolReaver]

The tool is called an oscilloscope, you can also use an led inline with a resistor to check Both speed and ref sensors. If it is not Ohming out correctly and you are not getting signal then I guess that the sensors are a logical culprit. Not knowing your car or much about your difficulty I can't be sure. The connectors are sometimes to blame and sometimes it is the wiring itself. IF you are going to trash the sensors anyway, clip the connectors off, separate the wires and check the resistance directly to the wiring. OK, Still dead? Go ahead and pull them like bad teeth.

Apart from what I have already said, I can't really help you much more on getting them out besides the following anecdotal references. One man actually did the entire clutch job because they are readily accessible once the clutch bell housing is removed. Actually, you HAVE to remove them to get the bell housing off, SO I guess they are more readily accessible once the starter and TT are removed, to be honest with you. Getting wiring and that cursed heater core valve out of the way is a pain as well. I had to unhook the valve from the control cable and lasoo it and other parts out of the way. I think I had to unbolt the AC lines from the bracket and move them a bit as well. (don't disconnect, just relocate without cracking them.) Once you resign yourself to clipping all the zip ties that run along the base of the hood and spend a bit rearranging stuff, you might be able to get a straight shot at them. One guy cushioned his engine and laid down upon it to get a good angle...come to think of it...I might have as well. I once used really long curved pliers held on the bugger by tightening a hose clamp. I used to have some twisted and butchered surgical forceps for just such emergencies (on similar sensors)...but they were long gone once another mechanic saw me use them to effect. Each time is a new adventure.

If I were you, Knowing what I know.....First the penatrating oil and wiggling, A LOT. Be patient, this is the best way but it may take forever...NEXT, I would try to drive it up from underneath or hooking with something and pulling up. IF still no joy.....try to remove the block that holds the sensors. It is held in with (I think) a hex bolt(s?) that you can barely get a (shortened?) hex (allen) socket with a few extensions and a universal (or two?) The process is a little vauge as I remember it, It involves a good deal of swearing, some duct tape to keep the flexi extensions all together and an ability to contort ones body while groveling underneath the car that defies description and becomes easier the longer you work on Porsches or Jaguars. OH, the insulation in that area itches like hell, so wear gloves, a mask, and long sleeves. You MIGHT want to remove the starter. definitely disconnect the battery.

With the sensor block off, you have to load it again with sensors and put it back in place, adjusting it with a the card stock as I mentioned earlier. Like I said it is not a fun job. I wish you good luck. It is a job few mechanics will take on because you can never make flat rate. Replacing the sensors start to finish for me would be several hours minimal. OH, be really careful of the 10 mm sensor bolts, they are special. DO NOT LOOSE them.

Is there an "interchange" for the sensors? don't they countermatch to Merc or BMW or something? Just trying to save you some bucks here in case you haven't bought replacements yet.

[alantica]

As mentioned by SolReaver - reference "more on a no start" thread by thekidd, the #8 remark by Outback Porsche.

"Replace the sensors. This was my problem (only intermittent) a while back. I used the BMW 6 series sensors - half the price. Only difference is the last number in the bosch part number, and the tail is longer."

Another 'Intermittent Start' Problem

[SolReaver]

That's the ticket! Good fielding there Atlantica!
there are other sensors that will work, but I think that is the interchange that is easiest. If you read the thread, you can see I am not kidding, the Speed and ref sensor connections are all ka ka doo doo as they are all 2 to 3 decades old. The Amp connectors are good as a replacement if you want something fancy-schmancy. I just grab what is available at a boneyard or use trailer connectors. The idea is to have a good solid connection. Encasing the whole thing in sealant may sound odd, but all is fair in love and war against the gremlins.

OK, does the tach bounce when you crank the car? no movement means that there is no signal. But, you knew that. You already did the grounds and charged the battery and all the no start stuff that led you here. Coolness. See if you can invent a special tool to get those puppies...Just about everyone who does this job would be interested. Hec, I would buy one.

[callmethewander]

Thanks much for all the info and advice. For a little background, I bought this car for parts with 311,000+ miles on it, but it turned out that i got the body parts i needed elsewhere and because this was a factory yellow, and because I have the P-car disease, I decided to restore it instead of destroy it. So... onward and upward.

It will probably be a little while until i get back at it, I have a couple others with little things that need attention, but I will keep trying, although I don't know for sure that the engine will run anyway, but it does crank and get fuel so I am hopefully optimistic.

[thekidd]

here is the thread that atlantica was talking about- more on a no start
I am getting my wires in a few days, but while waiting for them tried to take the speed/ref. sensors out. What a bhitch! And I only got 1 of them out, in IM guessing 1 hrs. time!!?? There is no real room to get to the one closer to the firewall, and barely enough room for my small hands to get the front one out. I think i used a 9mm socket, a 4 inch extension, and some other extension dealy that you bend, and I barely reached the sensor bolt. Getting to the bolt took half the time, getting tht bolt out took about 1 minuet, and getting the sensor out took the rest of the time. I soaked it WD-40 a few times, waited it out, wiggled and spun, trien prying it up with a screwdriver, used the locking plyers, (cant think of the name?) even jacked up the car to see what it looked like from the bottom. After all that Isaiod F-it and sat on the engine (125Lbs. so its OK) and I just willed it out, sorry cann't give any tips, but was just yanking at it, and once it pulled up slightly it was easy from there. Any special tools that you think will help you out, I say use it.

[SolReaver]

OK, if there is no big hurry....Put a nice coat of wax on the pretty yellow paint and store it under a good car cover with a heavy tarp over it. Every few days hit the spot with penetrating fluid. Spend a little bit on the weekend trying to get the sensor out. If you truly have time...search here and RL for how to hook up that led test light thingie to test the sensors...I really would like to know more about it and you might want to be sure before removing yours.

I am pretty sure they are 10mm bolts holding the sensors in. At least they are on my car.

Pretty color. Ya don't see to many of em around nowadays. 311K? wow. Someone must have done a bit of work to it at one point or another. IF those sensors are original...small wonder they are stuck in there. Hey, you might be able to bring it back and have the highest mileage 944 of anyone I know. Amazing the Odo still works as they usually go by now.

[Zero10]

Often times the odometer will bind up when turning and crank over the 100,000 digit for no good reason. Likely the car has 111 or 211k miles on it (unless you've got carfax or other records going back). Very rare to see one with that many miles on it

[alantica]

Just wondering. Has anybody ever tried spraying chiller on those sensors during removal? Thinking in theory - with the idea that the sensor is non-workable so that extreme cold will not matter to the part. If the extreme cold compresses the plastic & rubber O-ring and maybe goes down far enough to compress the metal, the shrinkage may allow just enough room to pull the sensor out. I don't know if it would be enough to loosen any slight build up of rust or oil deposits on the sensor. Here is an example of the chiller I am talking about.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=341-380&ctab=3#Tabs

The only bad thing I can think of would be that it gets so cold that the plastic would crack or break. What do you guys think?

A note on mileage. My 99.5 Nissan Pathfinder LE that I purchased new in Oct 99 had 8 miles on it at the time of purchase. Normally my wife drives it one way 58 miles (116 total), 1.24 hours to work at the hospital where she is an RN, 3 or 4 times a week. Road trip down to Florida twice, up north to PA & DC 4 times, up & down the beach here in NC plus hauling a bass boat to many fishing spots every summer. It now has 241,368 miles on it. It has been rear ended-twice and my daughter and I have managed to whack two deer because their car radar's evidently were not working during the rutting season, thank God for the deer bar. Never had to do anything to the engine other than change the oil & belts, normal maintenance. Paint job is clean with normal door dents from idiots and a few scratches & no rust, normally parked in the yard beside our home. I say this because callmethewander's 944 looks too clean to have that amount of mileage. No messed up rubber, wear marks, paint chips, etc... I'm thinking the meter has been replaced and was monkeyed with at the time of replacement or as Zero10 said for some reason it has tripped. ???

Subscribing

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[carlege]

Originally Posted by alantica

Just wondering. Has anybody ever tried spraying chiller on those sensors during removal? Thinking in theory - with the idea that the sensor is non-workable so that extreme cold will not matter to the part. If the extreme cold compresses the plastic & rubber O-ring and maybe goes down far enough to compress the metal, the shrinkage may allow just enough room to pull the sensor out. I don't know if it would be enough to loosen any slight build up of rust or oil deposits on the sensor. Here is an example of the chiller I am talking about.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=341-380&ctab=3#Tabs

The only bad thing I can think of would be that it gets so cold that the plastic would crack or break. What do you guys think?

if the sensor is set in a metal bracket it would also shrink, so i dont think that would work. Remember metal is an excellent transmitter of temperature