Brake upgrade help needed

[Ez-Bone]

wow, it's been such a long time since I've been on lol...

Anyway;
I've been hunting 'bigger' brakes for my 944 N/A recently. I've heard rumor that 993TT brakes are a nice conversion setup without having to buy Brembo GTs which are essentially the same thing Porsche used (uses) on their Turbo models anyway.


What I'm getting at is, what brake setup is better? The calipers look a tiny bit the same.
I'm comparing the 951, 951S, and 993TT brake systems/calipers.

The calipers look exactly the same form aside from ridges on the face of the 951 brakes with a more blocky 'PORSCHE' font than the more original font look on the 993TT calipers. I know they all have 4 pistons but is there any real difference that I should even be concerned about?

[Techno Duck]

In short i would stick with the standard 951 calipers. Cheaper rotors, cheaper pads, less weight (unsprung and rotational) and they are more than enough for the relatively lightweight / low power n/a.

Look at post #2 for info regarding the caliper differences. Note that you will need '86 951 spindles for your early offset car.

944 Brake Upgrade

[Ez-Bone]

Originally Posted by Techno Duck

In short i would stick with the standard 951 calipers. Cheaper rotors, cheaper pads, less weight (unsprung and rotational) and they are more than enough for the relatively lightweight / low power n/a.

Look at post #2 for info regarding the caliper differences. Note that you will need '86 951 spindles for your early offset car.

944 Brake Upgrade

Yea, price really isn't an issue to me so the conversion will go fairly smooth once I find all my parts
Power though, I do plan on putting a turbocharged 968 powerplant in there soon, right around 458BHP soon enough, so will the 951 braking components be good still?

[P944GUY]

Sound slike you have money to burn..Why don't you just find a nice 968, if your gonna put that engine in it...and it would look better too....

[Ez-Bone]

Originally Posted by P944GUY

Sound slike you have money to burn..Why don't you just find a nice 968, if your gonna put that engine in it...and it would look better too....

Brembo GT = Right around 5 thousand
Porsche 968 = well over 5 thousand dollars
Catch my drift? :P

Yeah I have money to blow and while price may not be a concern, I'm not going to go crazy with it. I still want to budget and get things done at a decent price. I've seen conversion kits on eBay for as much as 2k but that included all hardware and all four calipers which I didn't think was a bad price.

But I recently noticed a major price difference between 951, 951S, and 993TT brakes and was starting to wonder 'Are they physically different... or just status symbol different?'

Know what I mean?

Plus, I don't like the front ends on a 968, I'd rather have a 986 if anything and those things were rather ugly lol. I've just gotten stuck on 951 style front ends plus Pop-lights drive me wild lol

But back on subject. What's you're take on 951 calipers vs. 993TT calipers? The same size? or slightly thicker to fit thicker rotors?

[ernie9944]

Originally Posted by Ez-Bone

Yea, price really isn't an issue to me so the conversion will go fairly smooth once I find all my parts
Power though, I do plan on putting a turbocharged 968 powerplant in there soon, right around 458BHP soon enough, so will the 951 braking components be good still?

Where did you get the 458 HP figures for a Super Charges 968 motor ,this is almost double HP of what a stock 968 (236hp) produce ,peoples who has been converting 944 NA to 968 motor are usually pretty satisfy with the kind of power & speed they get out of them, they will maybe intall a chip ,modify the air boxe & put in a K&N witch will add another 25 HP or so but that it.Not only will you need bigger brakes ,the suspension & drivetrain on a NA are not made to take that kind of power & you will have to switch everything from a 951 to the NA suspension wise & also rework the internal on the 968 motor. I can see getting close to 300 HP from the super charger & unless I'm missing something 458 HP is pretty darn high figures. If money is no object may I suggest you sell the na & buy a nice 951 & mode it to get some 450 HP this will be more realistic & won't cost you your eyes ball plus the car will still be safe to drive on the street with. And I agree with P944 GUY you migth not like the 968 front end but at over 155 mph you'll love it. Being a 944 NA & 968 owners at one time during my owneship of both I had the pleasure of having both speedo needles where they shouldn't be & can attest that there a ligth years difference between an 944 na & 968 speed & handling when thing get serious.

[ecostellodo]

the standard breaks on the 944 are more than adequate. most of the 944 spec guys use the standard breaks at the track. save your money.

eric

[Ez-Bone]

Originally Posted by ernie9944

Where did you get the 458 HP figures for a Super Charges 968 motor ,this is almost double HP of what a stock 968 (236hp) produce ,peoples who has been converting 944 NA to 968 motor are usually pretty satisfy with the kind of power & speed they get out of them, they will maybe intall a chip ,modify the air boxe & put in a K&N witch will add another 25 HP or so but that it.Not only will you need bigger brakes ,the suspension & drivetrain on a NA are not made to take that kind of power & you will have to switch everything from a 951 to the NA suspension wise & also rework the internal on the 968 motor. I can see getting close to 300 HP from the super charger & unless I'm missing something 458 HP is pretty darn high figures. If money is no object may I suggest you sell the na & buy a nice 951 & mode it to get some 450 HP this will be more realistic & won't cost you your eyes ball plus the car will still be safe to drive on the street with. And I agree with P944 GUY you migth not like the 968 front end but at over 155 mph you'll love it. Being a 944 NA & 968 owners at one time during my owneship of both I had the pleasure of having both speedo needles where they shouldn't be & can attest that there a ligth years difference between an 944 na & 968 speed & handling when thing get serious.

I've already got my suspension about figured out and drivetrain systems. As for struts, I was looking for something very similar to what the 997TT has one its sport chrono package; and Bilstein has just that! they call their version of it 'Electronic ridecontrol®' I just think it would be neat to have a fully active suspension on a 944.

As for the 3.0 powerplant, I'm using a stage III turbo system with a piggyback boost controller. With a turbine that size, 10-16psi will get you into the higher power ratings without risk of blowing up your engine. Also, I'm not going to powerup the thing and not have the body still 'blocky' I do plan on properly venting it in various places to keep the drag-co efficiency down at higher speeds.
I'm doing all this myself and improvising, hence why price isn't too big of an issue for me

[ernie9944]

Sorry about the misunstanding

[Ez-Bone]

Originally Posted by ernie9944

Sorry about the misunstanding

No misunderstanding :P

I guess I should have been a tad more thorough with why I want slightly better brakes than what Porsche gave the N/A models

[ernie9944]

GOOF--Like a said sorry about the misunderstanding ,your talking about Turbo Charging it not Super Charge. But by reading what you want to do I,ll say thousand & thousand of dollars,and I'm just wondering why so much peoples who turn there 968 to turbo charge successfully do it with an 8 valves motor,even outfit like (Power House had issues with there turbo 16 valves and what about Porsche itself why did they chose to go 8 valves instead of 16 in their 968 turbo. I still don't understand using a 968 motor to acheive the HP claim of 458 when it will be so simple to use a 951 8 valves. You must have a lot of money to throw away & lot of time on your hand to get into such a project & can't hardly wait to see the result plus the Dino chart.Still good kuck with your project &

[Ez-Bone]

Originally Posted by ernie9944

GOOF--Like a said sorry about the misunderstanding ,your talking about Turbo Charging it not Super Charge. But by reading what you want to do I,ll say thousand & thousand of dollars,and I'm just wondering why so much peoples who turn there 968 to turbo charge successfully do it with an 8 valves motor,even outfit like (Power House had issues with there turbo 16 valves and what about Porsche itself why did they chose to go 8 valves instead of 16 in their 968 turbo. I still don't understand using a 968 motor to acheive the HP claim of 458 when it will be so simple to use a 951 8 valves. You must have a lot of money to throw away & lot of time on your hand to get into such a project & can't hardly wait to see the result plus the Dino chart.Still good kuck with your project &

Well I'm buying everything I'll need before the project.
trying to drive it and upgrade/restore at the same time was killing me and my checking account nearly divorced me because of it :P So I'm just going to buy everything, store it all wrapped up, then once I have everything on my check list, then break down and build can begin

All of this will make for a speedy rebuild, thus I can probably get it done in about 6months time given that I work in a dock with all the right tools on hand. If i do it in my parkway like I've been doing, it could take me up to a year to finish... mainly for a stupid reason... spiders

[fmartenies]

Originally Posted by Ez-Bone

mainly for a stupid reason... spiders

That is not stupid at all. I've quit for the night because of that very reason. Or a cockroach crawls past your face while you are under the car....end of that task for the night.

[Ez-Bone]

Originally Posted by fmartenies

That is not stupid at all. I've quit for the night because of that very reason. Or a cockroach crawls past your face while you are under the car....end of that task for the night.

Yea, I too hate when you get surprise 'helpers' crawling on you while under the car. You spot them and it sometimes startles me so bad that I end up bashing my head into whatever it was I was working with, often getting something unjammed because of it believe it or not LOL

But while I don't mind spiders (despite having arachnophobia so bad that if I see one big enough and it has snuck up on me, I literally get so pissed, scared, and jumpy that I start blurting random things and cursing in a combo of French and German) but yea, I don't really mind them... it's the Tree Spiders and Brown Recluse that bother me. They look exactly alike only one is aggressive, the other isn't. I've found a total of 9 Recluse on my Datsun, only 2 on the 944 so far

[Cocacolakidd]

Brown Recluse Spiders are nothing compared to the Hobo Spider - That's why they call me 8 Toes... ^^^-- ^^^^^

[968 GUY]

Didn't shake the ol' boots out huh?

[Ez-Bone]

Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd

Brown Recluse Spiders are nothing compared to the Hobo Spider - That's why they call me 8 Toes... ^^^-- ^^^^^

I don't know what a Hobo Spider is. Is it like a spider that has a stick with a bag tied to it and hiking it out on the open road? :P lol j/k
But seriously, it sounds like a serious spider... one that I'd probably turn ghost white if I saw one

Originally Posted by 968 GUY

Didn't shake the ol' boots out huh?

Not boots, the spiders like to hide underneath and inside the car

[Cocacolakidd]

A Hobo Spider is a cousin to the Brown Recluse - both being in the Funnel Web family. It is larger, longer legs, fast, and very agressive. It looks very much like the Tree Spider/Wolf Spider (According to which you call it) a little larger with longer legs though. When it bites it is very painfull and then the bite/venom rots the flesh away much worse than even the Brown Recluse. Three months later the Docs were taking my toes off because they couldn't stop the venom from eating away at my foot.


Instead of the 997TT brakes and if one needs to go over size completly, go with Big Reds or Big Blacks as found on 928S4's - they will fit the 944 turbo spindles with a radial mount adaptor. The rotors are larger and the pistons in the calipers are also larger - bigger brakes.

[Ez-Bone]

Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd

A Hobo Spider is a cousin to the Brown Recluse - both being in the Funnel Web family. It is larger, longer legs, fast, and very agressive. It looks very much like the Tree Spider/Wolf Spider (According to which you call it) a little larger with longer legs though. When it bites it is very painfull and then the bite/venom rots the flesh away much worse than even the Brown Recluse. Three months later the Docs were taking my toes off because they couldn't stop the venom from eating away at my foot.


Instead of the 997TT brakes and if one needs to go over size completly, go with Big Reds or Big Blacks as found on 928S4's - they will fit the 944 turbo spindles with a radial mount adaptor. The rotors are larger and the pistons in the calipers are also larger - bigger brakes.

Ah, nasty little bugger it sounds like. Whenever I think spiders are taking over my cars I just bomb them lol, dead carcusses everywhere :P just a matter of vacuuming even works on mice it seems as I've found dead mice in the boot area, side pocket where you can store extra things. I guess it sufficate the poor devils :P

And as for the 928 brakes; so they are bigger huh? it does make sense though, they have to be able to stop all that car and according to Porsche it was able to do a 0-60-0 run in 9secs which isn't bad for it's time
I'll look into it, thanks for the advice!

One more thing... TechnoDuck mentioned something about there being a brake size comparison on this forum on 'second post' I don't get it... I've been looking and no find

Edit: disregard that question about technoduck, if the link were a spider I would have spot it a long time ago (but in this case I'd go toward it this time lol)

[smokin_944]

Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd

A Hobo Spider is a cousin to the Brown Recluse - both being in the Funnel Web family. It is larger, longer legs, fast, and very agressive. It looks very much like the Tree Spider/Wolf Spider (According to which you call it) a little larger with longer legs though. When it bites it is very painfull and then the bite/venom rots the flesh away much worse than even the Brown Recluse. Three months later the Docs were taking my toes off because they couldn't stop the venom from eating away at my foot.


Instead of the 997TT brakes and if one needs to go over size completly, go with Big Reds or Big Blacks as found on 928S4's - they will fit the 944 turbo spindles with a radial mount adaptor. The rotors are larger and the pistons in the calipers are also larger - bigger brakes.

Finally I have a good reason for living in the ice capital of Canada... Those spiders are waaay too dangerous for me! I once got a Black Widow in a case of Cantaloupes from the US but I managed to coax it in a jar ( it came out of a cooler 40F)and took it to the university bio department.