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Modified damper , needs modified starter?.

1988 944 auto .
Just got this 2 mths ago . MAde grinding noise on start but started . Went to change starter .the new starters ( first we thought rebuild was no good)did not spin or engage the ring gear and

Just noticed that the Damper has been modified /replaced with clutch assembly.
What is need for the starter to engage ? Ring gear is fine . The original starter was already turned in to Autozone . I dont know if it was modified or had different bendix gear . Obviously something was different or done to it . not sure ,but i kind of remember the housing on original starter being larger then the 3 starters i recently got . but not sure . never compare .
Now knowing it was modified . The non-porsche mechanic is freaking out ,car ison lift . is there a modification to starter or bell housing needed or can be simple done? is there a different starter that can be used? Im guessing the gear profile is too low to grab ring gear . Is there a bigger gear the can be installed to starter . If so what is the part numbers and where can i get them . and what needs to be done?.
Old 02-17-2011, 01:40 PM
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But the car was starting . so something was different and working from the rebuild starter . MAybe a bigger gear . or different starter . im not sure of this starter versatility. maybe the 1 originally working was from VW . I know some parts are same . . Any solutions??
do i have to buy flexplate and do the damper repair . I have a damper . I would need a flexplate . I dont think a damper can be attached to clutch flywheel.
Also would a Porsche Dealer mechanic know what to do. How would they handle this?
How about a starter rebuilder? would they be able to install a larger gear . or modify one ? Is ring gear different on the clutch assembly and damper ? If so can they be interchange d? Is distace from starter hole on man/auto tran the issue ? or is it hieght(smaller diameter) where can i get this info ?
1 more . when swapped did the drive shaft have to be changed ? Will a damper still be able to install ?if we remove the flywheel and clutch and return to rubber damper . i already got a damper . but now i would need flywheel . But i want to avoid the big job totally if starter can be modified . also want to avoid hospitalizing or burying the man from the dealership ,who swore ,only a starter was needed ,when i bought this car .And the repercussions that will come from those actions. .Unfortunately for him, I Teach Martial arts (Ninjitsu) . Although very tempting .>:-[
Point me in the direction of some1 who will know .Or where i can get job done . brooklyn area.
Please . any1 with info may call me anytime . 3479441104 leave message if i m not here . i will appreciate that .
Chris
Old 02-17-2011, 02:16 PM
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You do not have a common problem with 944 cars. There are alot of non stock factors involved now. Can you get the original starter back that did start your car and compare it with the other starters?
Old 02-17-2011, 02:22 PM
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It appears that your car has been modified to replace a failed rubber damper, with a manual transmissions, clutch, pressure plate, clutch release lever and bell housing.
Check your option sticker in the trunk under the carpet near the lock.
If one of the options is 198 then you car was built with a heavy duty starter,
part # 95160410200 , the standard starter is part # 951 604 101 00
The starter rings have different part numbers for the automatic and manual transmissions.
It appears that your starter and starter ring are not compatible. You probably need a manual transmission starter.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zedsn View Post
You do not have a common problem with 944 cars. There are alot of non stock factors involved now. Can you get the original starter back that did start your car and compare it with the other starters?
No i can not , i just called autozone and they sent it out already . Would a starter rebuilder be able to put a higher profile ,same spacing ratio gear on the stock starter? i f do have a damper w/ ring gear that can be used to match along with starer gear . Can it be made in a machine shop ? if i give the starter and gear with estimate of height needed on bendix gear. maybe a gear can be fasioned and and attached to starter . I never dealt with this stuff. that is only if hieght on gear is to short . but . If the difference on housing s are distance form starter hole and and is too short . you cant modify that . where can i get the measurements of these factors. Ring gear s are the same size?
How about a Hand-crank to start car ,like in the early 1900's.
is buying a flexplate and hassle of changing back to damoer ,in which i have . The only solution so far ? i never worked on a tranny or have facalilty to try it . i would be able to figure something out and maybe fashion it . I am like a McGuyver. I made my own tool for things. with stuff you wont believe . i dont have that option here . It is on a lift i a shop. i need simple quick solution , other then a Match and gasoline.
Old 02-17-2011, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfray View Post
It appears that your car has been modified to replace a failed rubber damper, with a manual transmissions, clutch, pressure plate, clutch release lever and bell housing.
Check your option sticker in the trunk under the carpet near the lock.
If one of the options is 198 then you car was built with a heavy duty starter,
part # 95160410200 , the standard starter is part # 951 604 101 00
The starter rings have different part numbers for the automatic and manual transmissions.
It appears that your starter and starter ring are not compatible. You probably need a manual transmission starter.
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this is good to hear . Cause i remember org. starter being much bigger. I will entertain this immediately.. however if code should not say heavy duty. because it was auto to begin with . but i think who ever modified this did also install a bigger starter but no longer have original . '\Thankx
so basically i need a different starter . The heavy duty one . where can i get one?
or maybe that has larger gear that can be swapped with the starter i have?
Old 02-17-2011, 02:46 PM
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how can i tell if housing was changed? we know gears are different ,cause damper / clutch gears are. I have a clutch . i need heavy duty starter due to gear ring . but we need to know if housing is different. and if diferent can i have a standard starter built with a benix gear from a heavy duty to compensate for ring and housing mis match??
OOo that is a good idea i just thought of . but can that be done . I think the gear is the major factor and easiest solution , maybe even if needed to be welded in place . where can i get a starter rebuild part list?? there must be specs there . and will answer most sizing question we have .
Old 02-17-2011, 02:55 PM
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The early 944 cars from 1983 to 1985.5 used a noticably larger starter. This might point you in the right direction possibly.
Old 02-17-2011, 03:03 PM
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Auto zone does show a different starter *bigger) for the 944s or turbo. not sure . but that must be the one i need ed Good news that this starter brand that i will be getting is PORSCHE,as to their, Rinky,dinky ,chinky rebuild brand.
Im just hoping this one will fit and work . but however if modification is needed to starter . I rather it be a reliable better made starter . Thnks for those part number . if this works out . im actually uiin better shape cause i have no damper . to have to change in future again ,if that was my problem originally . And have extra buck for the wet sand and clear coats that is very needed.
but how about that hand -crank idea????
would have been very unique mod for a porsche .LOL
Old 02-17-2011, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfray View Post
If one of the options is 198 then you car was built with a heavy duty starter,
part # 95160410200 , the standard starter is part # 951 604 101 00
The starter rings have different part numbers for the automatic and manual transmissions.

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Thats assuming if car still has original bell housing after swap. but ill check anyhow/ I could not find the part number for heavy starter in the Catolog of parts . but auto zone reconizes that number. is the a genuin porshe part caralog i can find?
Old 02-17-2011, 04:44 PM
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is there a number on bell housing or a distinguishing difference ? i can see from under car and that will identify type i have ..
Old 02-17-2011, 04:57 PM
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I the parts manual shows the same Bell-housing for Automatic and Manual but the turbo is diifferent.
Here is the parts manual: http://www.eucc.dk/PDF/pet.pdf
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:31 PM
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very helpful the difference between Man/auto housing is The hole for hte clutch operating cylinder. Mine has that hole also . Therefore my housing is a man housing. I think there is differences between ring gears on S2 and regular man models . but same housing. s2 is same as turbo . Maybe i have a turbo housing and flywheel ETC. i need to write there numbers down . turbo have completely different style / shape starter . i noticed 4 differnt starters for 944 maybe 5 .
Dam Germans!!!!
I regroup and think tomorrow . see if i can organize this . but looking good .I only need correct type of starter . The starter i got today was off a 924 AUTO .my luck . if was man ual ,probably would have been good . I have to return 2 starters tomorrow . maybe junkyard woulhave 1 i need for real cheap .and no wait.
Auto zone only wants 184 fior the heavy duty starter made bty porsche only. . would be great if i was certain it was that . i believe it for S2 .
Old 02-17-2011, 06:52 PM
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I have used several NA starters on Turbo cars and they fit no problems - What is different in the Turbo set-up is the size of the clutch system. The clutch is larger ( 240mm for the turbo ) on the 951's and require a different larger bell-housing, clutch plate, pressure plate, ring gear and fly wheel. The larger bell-housing moves the starter out to the larger ring gear size of the turbo's 240mm clutch size.

The standard starter motor fits all 924 turbo, 924S, 944/s/s2/Turbo - p/n 951.604.101.00 and are around $175.00 rebuilt Bosch.

Ha - the heavy duty turbo starter p/n 95160410200 are rather expensive at $950.00 new. Whereas the standard starter can be found for a reasonable price, and both starters fit the same cars.

I have never worked on an auto trans 944, but I doubt that the starter motor is different (Here I could be wrong) - call Pelican at 888-280-7799 to find out.
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Last edited by Cocacolakidd; 02-18-2011 at 12:11 PM..
Old 02-18-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd View Post
I have used several NA starters on Turbo cars and they fit no problems - What is different in the Turbo set-up is the size of the clutch system. The clutch is larger ( 240mm for the turbo ) on the 951's and require a different larger bell-housing, clutch plate, pressure plate, ring gear and fly wheel. The larger bell-housing moves the starter out to the larger ring gear size of the turbo's 240mm clutch size.

Ha - the heavy duty turbo starter p/n 95160410200 are rather expensive at $950.00 new. Whereas the standard starter can be found for a reasonable price, and both starters fit the same cars.
I got good news for you .That starter ,you can get from AutoZone for 187.
Made by PORSCHE!!! . I just got today. tomorrow i pick it up .
the flywheel is rather large . I can tell you that the back is flat . looking from the bell cover on engine side , very tight inside . Hard to get even a mirror inside to snoop around. how can i tell what flywheel i have ?? can someone give me spec? thinckness of fly . I can measure that. its made of steel i believe. i never messed with this stuff . as far as my mechanic experiences. I never changed a clucth before . On a bike i did . Im a painter ,for Christ sake . LOL but a smart one .
as far as the other starter not meshing up. is the height. the distance is fine as far as the throw of bendix gear . I seen marks on gear that indicates contact of ring gear around 1mm . not not biting enough . . there is a little wear on tips of ring gear . but if starter mesh up correctly it would not be a factor in my opinion.
IS the hieght or diameter of bendix gear on the 95169410200 starter larger then the -----------100 starter?? that is what is needed.
bendix does not go in groves on ring gear futher enough.
we will see tomoro when i get the bigger starter made by porsche from autozone.
If push comes to shove. I think i can drill out the top of mounting holes for starter on bell 3-4 mm. and shim the bottom ,.to raise the wrong starter up to mesh tighter with ring gear . it only aluminum . only on 1 side . the side where bolt is screw into starter . the 15mm bolt on engine side . it will tilt it up to meet gear . I dont think the angle will change so much that it would make a difference .

my other option is drill a 1" thru the radiator and front bumper and use a hand crank .. might be hard on the back . but at the least it will get started.
any questions call me 3479441104 . im bad at getting my thoughts and ideas down on paper in a way the majority of the population can understand . im ADHD . i think of 1000s of things every minute 144 IQ. it drives me crazy . I have GED only . im not educated . i teach myself and have no one to direct me . only you guys and i appreciate it greatly.
thanks guys for the help .
Old 02-18-2011, 12:13 PM
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You go drilling a hole through your radiator you will be in a heap of trouble. Put the hand crank method out of your head. It will not work. You might want to get your car looked at by a professional before you start drilling any holes to relocate the starter as well. My 2 cents.
Old 02-18-2011, 12:20 PM
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The stone age man's club will never replace the modern button to push. Besides there were to many broken thumbs with the old mechanical crank handles - Remember the old four finger grab method that your Grand Father used.
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78-924 traded for 80-931 traded for 84-944 traded for 85.5-944 (7th one now).
UAV-M1 (Urban Assault Vehicle - Model 1)
Bless the lowered, and pass the nitromethane.
Pedal to the metal till you see the gates of hell then brake
NLA - No longer available is a four letter word
Old 02-18-2011, 09:11 PM
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lol. u think i have a turbo housing wtih a smaller clutch assembly? Ill have heavy duty porsche made starter tomorrow . from for ony 187. total . U get 65 back when returning your old core., They get from Porsche directly . Maybe some1 should high light this for many Porsche owners. before wasting a grand . they can after wards donate some to my Confused Porsche.
Does need clear coats and many other repairs as i looked under neath ,
You name ,That too needs to be fix. Im selling Porsche starter from Now on . Any one needs 1,send to me . .. Ill beat that 900, by more then 50%. They might have lifetime guarantee also . I will check take pics and post. manana

Last edited by Brooklyn758; 02-19-2011 at 12:33 AM..
Old 02-19-2011, 12:23 AM
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Just one question ___Brooklyn 758___ it is out of topic ,but do you know a user call 911 Ballin .Just asking cause your way of posting is very familiar to his.Good luck finding the rigth starter.
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Old 02-19-2011, 10:45 AM
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Actually the Starter Motor from Autozone is rebuilt by Duralast. Rebuilt unit is $115.99 + $65.00 core deposit for a total of $$180.99. My cheapest price, wholesale, is $655.60 for a NEW heavy duty unit.

The part I do not understand is that the heavy duty unit is recommended for the Turbo cars...When it is actually easier to start a turbo motor than an NA motor. Reason - Turbo cars have 8:1 compression at starting, whereas a NA motor is10:1 or more compression at starting. Thus at starting the NA version is a much harder motor to turn over to start ... curious?

The part number is stamped on the edge of the flywheel...so one can rotate the flywheel until the number is visible. There is also an identifying part number on the bell housing, and it is up close to the head of the motor, and starts with a 944.xxx.xxx.xx
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78-924 traded for 80-931 traded for 84-944 traded for 85.5-944 (7th one now).
UAV-M1 (Urban Assault Vehicle - Model 1)
Bless the lowered, and pass the nitromethane.
Pedal to the metal till you see the gates of hell then brake
NLA - No longer available is a four letter word

Last edited by Cocacolakidd; 02-19-2011 at 01:18 PM..
Old 02-19-2011, 12:52 PM
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