Monday, I'm going to start the process of removing the HEAD!

overkill · 10-02-2002, 01:07 AM

I didn't get a chance to read the manuals yet becuase I just made my mind up that I would do this monday. Does the factory manual cover the removal the the head? I think is does but not sure. I'm at work right now and dont have it in front of me. Are there any specail tools I might need? I know I need the timing belt tool, any others? I was planning on doing this when I got my website done but, i doesn't look like im going to get it done for a while. When I carry out this procedure I'm going to take my time and take ALOT of pictures. I'm also going to take ALOT of notes and make it avaible on the net so you guyz can follow my progress just in case I get stuck. I want to get this done I can get rid of this car and get my next

I miss it

Any advice and tips will be GREATLY appreciated

AFJuvat · 10-02-2002, 02:36 AM

Congratulations on taking the job on - for your first major repair, you are taking on a big one!

DO NOT plan on knocking this one out in a day or. This job is beyond the ability of most people without specialized equipment - You will need the services of a machine shop for certain things (valve guides etc).

Gather your tools and parts before hand - READ the manual completely - there is an entire chapter dedicated to removing the head and what needs to be done with it. It is very straightforward - book will tell you just about everything in this case -

Parts:
Camshaft chain
Camshaft chain tensioner
Valves as needed
16 valve seals
Valve guides as needed (you should replace all 16)
Valve seats as needed
Valve springs as needed
Valve keepers as needed
Timing belt
Head gasket
Valve cover gasket

Tools:
Sockets, a few extensions, and a couple of universals.
Porsche Special Tool 9226, as the camshafts need to come out.
Porsche Special Tool 9201, 9201A - for the belts
Dial Gauge
Calipers
Machine Shop (to replace valve guides, check for cracks etc.)

You can take some shortcuts by not checking and/or replacing certain items - However, you run the risk of causing more damage and/or inviting maintenance intensive/expensive reapirs further down the road.

Good Luck
AFJuvat

overkill · 10-02-2002, 06:34 AM

I need to send the head away to a machine shop to get the valve guides out? Does this have to be a special machine shop or anyone? Also, where can I get these special porsche tools? I did'nt see any here at PEL.

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

Overkill:
Good luck on the job. Make sure to follow all the directions of the process! Many people have tried to skip stuff in processes like this, and ended up in deep trouble!

Hopefully you won't get in over your head, (no pun intended!

)

Take your time!
-Z.

overkill · 10-02-2002, 06:58 AM

Thanks, I pretty sure I can do it. There are alot of people over here that are doubting me. It's not going to stop me though. I have plenty of resources and time so i should be ok. The thing that is going toi suck is sending the head away

AFJuvat · 10-02-2002, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by overkill
I need to send the head away to a machine shop to get the valve guides out? Does this have to be a special machine shop or anyone? Also, where can I get these special porsche tools? I did'nt see any here at PEL.

Yep, you need a machine shop to get the valve guides out (actually Porsche makes a few special tools for that too, but it is still a pain without experience)

Any machine shop experienced with automotive work should be able to do the job for you - provide them with the head and the new valve guides, they will take care of the rest.

You can get Tool 9201 and 9201/1 here at pelican - it is the belt tool. Failing that, you can install the belts and have the car towed to a shop to have them tensioned.

9226 is available from a dealer - it is used to lock down and align the camshafts for installation. The tool runs about $300.

Installation of the camshafts without 9226 is NOT recommended.

AFJuvat

overkill · 10-02-2002, 07:21 AM

I want to purchase these tools so I will have them for later. Those tools are expensive, so I will probably need some time to get them. I can pick a couple of them up ASAP but the rest will have to wait. Thanks for your help

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Are you a member of any local Porsche clubs? We have two 9201's floating around my local PCA.

overkill · 10-02-2002, 02:15 PM

No I'm not

I have to join soon.

overkill · 10-02-2002, 03:42 PM

Hey, I quickly browsed through the factory manual and there was like 15 something special tools to do this job! Are you sure all I need is those three special tools? Also, what do you think it is going to run me to get the valve guides done? What about if the valve seats are out of shape, what will that run and will the head have to go to a porsche machine shop to go them machined to seal? Do you think it is going to be worth it to fixed it then sell it? I'm mean I am going to do most of the work myself.

AFJuvat · 10-02-2002, 05:01 PM

You will save yoursefl a lot of time and aggravation if you buy the parts and take the head and all replacement parts to a machine shop to have it done..

AFJuvat

ae1969 · 10-02-2002, 05:21 PM

With your average backyard mechanic tools you will be able to take her apart.............

putting her back together will be another story....

The car is pretty much worth nothing not running.....so I guess you can't really ruin anything else..

So.

Take lots of pictures ...lots of notes....and do everything "DAMAN" says........

Send the head to a shop.....or buy a used one (maybe cheaper if $800 is considered cheap!!!), since you are planning on selling her anyways......

The thing that I found to be the most valuable........is a couple of good torque wrenches.......

Save your money on p9201....and take it somewhere to get tensioned....

Thats all for now............

Just "READ BEFORE YOU DO"......and if it doesn't make sense....just ask away.........its the only way I got through it when I had to do it............

Good luck

overkill · 10-02-2002, 06:37 PM

Ok, so you think I should just take the damn thing to a shop and have someone else just do it? Should I dismantle as much as much of the head as possible then send it away? I mean how will i know how many valves, etc,... to replace? I really don't want to do this because it's not worth it to me becasue im selling the car. Plus, all these tools are 16V specific tools that I wont be able to use on my next car right? How much you think a shop will charge JUST to replace the parts? I will supply parts of coarse.

ae1969 · 10-02-2002, 08:52 PM

Overkill you do not have much of a choice.

Car is now worth $500

If you take it to a shop to fix all this. Bill could run to $4000, depending on how many valves got toasted, and we still don't know if any pistons got damaged......

You may be able to sell the car for $5000 after all this.

If you fix it .... the parts may run you $1200 (if you really go for the bare necessities, since you just want to sell her anyways)
I would hope you find a used head $800 and other odds and ends for $400. It will still mean trying to reuse many of your old parts, but then again you are going to sell it!

So if it costs $1200 to fix, sell for $5000 .... you may at least come out with something.

Your only option is to fix, as I see it....................but not at a shop.

overkill · 10-02-2002, 09:29 PM

Ok, this is what im going to do,... Huntley Racing has rebuilt "S" heads for $800 with a FRIGGIN $2000 CORE CHARGE!!! So, I'm going to rip my head out and send it to them and in return get a fully assembled ready to go head from them for $800. I'll slap it in, get it running and then sell it for like $6000. Sound GOOD?

RJ Santangelo · 10-03-2002, 09:57 AM

To get a full head job (all valve seats,guides and head inspected for straightness, cracks etc) could be well over $500. valves are very expensive $70 a peice. I had all this work done on my 87S by a place in north jersey. I have spare springs and valves if you are interested. also it is very important that you time the cams perfectly, being a high compression motor the clearance between the valves and pistons are minimal. Also since i had the front end of the engine apart i changed all the front seals because if they leak they eat up the belts.

RJ Santangelo · 10-03-2002, 10:04 AM

In addition to what i wrote earlier do not just buy a head and slap it on your car i went through 4 yes 4 heads before i recieved a good one. most of the heads i got are warped. If you set the cams in the journals without the valves and springs in and torque the caps down the cams should spin freely (oil the journals first) If they do not the head may be warped or the cam journals may need to be line bored ( if possible ) Also i still sent out the heads to be pressure checked and vacuum tested. Its cheap insurance.

951carter · 10-03-2002, 11:02 AM

Overkill,

If you want to buy my '88 turbo I will give you $2,000 for the S on trade "as is".

Just a thought...........Would save you ALOT of work on something that still may not work.

Drop me a line if interested at; p.porsche@verizon.net

overkill · 10-03-2002, 12:01 PM

951Carter, I would love to take your 88 off your hands but I am falling short of cash. I just recently decided to fix the "S" and try and get my 951. I was giving away my whole paycheck to get rid of debt. Therefore I am falling short of cash. In a week or so I will be able to get the stageI head fully assembled and ready to go for 800 plus the tensioning tool. Maybe once the car is fixed we could talk, maybe throw some ideas around. Hey how many miles on your 88? I'm going to give it all I got to get my 951.

Makis · 10-03-2002, 12:56 PM

If you have a belt tensioner you won't need any special tools. I done it on my S2 with no special tools except a torque wrench.
It took me at least a day to take the head out. And it takes another day to get it back again. The workshop manual is essential however the way to time the cams is a bit unpractical.
I gave the head away to be fixed and the shop replaced:
All 16 Valve springs
1 Exhaust valve, it was burned.
Regrinded the seats and valves
Skimmed the head (essential when doing any head jobs)
Replace valve seals.
The job costed me about $250 for labor and
$500 for parts including head gasket set.
It will cost more to replace the guides as well. When I asked my machine shop he would have touched them so I suspect they are quite expensive to replace. But if done the head will be like new.