Almost done!!! NEED HELP!

BB500 · 05-07-2009, 08:12 PM

Ok guys! I have the water pump on, AND the timing belt on the old engine. (I just need to see what's going on with the old engine, and I KNOW you guys are too!!!)

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!

I [I]can't [I] turn the engine over by turning the crank with a socket wrench, even with ALL 8 spark plugs out! This can't be good!!!

Dangler??? What do you think? I think the "mechanic" that messed with my cam gears really screwed things up.
Does anybody know how to "start over"??? I mean, is there a way to "reset" and put everything at "0" so to say????

please let me know, I'm going to be back on it first thing in the morning. Oh, the spark plug galleys were flooded with oil by the way.

Here are pictures of where everything is lined up at.

Imo000 · 05-07-2009, 08:15 PM

Doee everything line up when you are at O/T (TDC)?

BB500 · 05-07-2009, 08:28 PM

I cant turn the crank

Imo000 · 05-07-2009, 08:32 PM

Did you remove the flywheel locking tool?

BB500 · 05-07-2009, 08:32 PM

Everything seems to be lined up perfectly right now, see pic how the mark on the backing plate lines up with the divots on the gear.

BB500 · 05-07-2009, 08:34 PM

haha... yeah, Dano has it, but that was what I was thinking too, I had to double check even though I knew I gave it back!

Imo000 · 05-07-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB500

Everything seems to be lined up perfectly right now, see pic how the mark on the backing plate lines up with the divots on the gear.

What I see is that they are both about 3 teeth too forwards but the crank is at the 45 degree mark. From this point it's difficlut to tell if the marks will lline up when the crank is at TDC.

BB500 · 05-07-2009, 08:43 PM

This is pretty much where they were when I pulled the belt, but one of the gears might be one tooth left or right of the other.

Danglerb · 05-07-2009, 09:31 PM

Bear in mind I am NOT experienced with 32v motors except to take them apart.

Is the car in park?

When you try to turn the motor (usually always clockwise), what seems to be binding?
Use a finger to feel the tension on various segments of the belt and that should tell you what doesn't want to move.

Try wiggling the different parts, see if something is frozen. If nothing wants to move, I'm thinking the belt needs to come off and then recheck movement of each part. (as long as the crank stays "close" to 45 degrees a little movement should be harmless).

Be careful no junk gets down the spark plug holes.

Niles · Niles's Garage

I count 48 teeth on the camshaft sprocket. So 45 degrees of crank rotation would be 22.5 degrees for the cam. 360 divided by 22.5 is 16. 48 divided by 16 is 3. So the cam should be 3 teeth off. It appears to be set correctly.

I went back to the manual and looked it up. With the crankshaft at the 45 degree mark before Top Dead Center. "Camshafts may be turned without damaging the valves after aligning the 45 deg. mark."

MPDano · MPDano's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB500

I cant turn the crank

You were able to turn the crank BEFORE you put the Timing Belt on, correct?

I do see a post saying your marks are on now. Does it turn now? #1 Piston at top?

Also, is 4|5 the Correct TDC?

bjenkins · 05-08-2009, 08:26 AM

Is the car in neutral or are the rear wheels up? If not, you're trying to move the entire car.

Dean_Fuller · 05-08-2009, 08:58 AM

This could be off. On the 32V cars you first set crank at T/D and align back notches to notch in back plate. Then turn crank to 45 degs ( this is the only crank position where the cams can be turned WITHOUT interference) then YOU mark the cam gears. Mine were already marked when the PO did the first job....Once aligned turn crank 2 complete rotations to make sure they still align. If the motor will not rotate try removing the plugs.

MPDano · MPDano's Garage

Is 4|5 the Correct TDC? Ok, found my answer somewhere else. Here are pics of what it should look like.

Quote:

With the marks that you added (FIGURE 5), you can install the new timing belt at the 45 degree position.

Since this is the only position that is certain to allow camshaft movement with no danger of valve

crashing, and since the cams want to move suddenly and unexpectedly (due to valve spring pressure),

this is the safest position at which to install the belt. Remember that all belt slack should be at the

tensioner. Stuff a rag under the crank pulley to hold the belt on the pulley and make installation much

less frustrating. Pull the belt tightly over the oil pump, then the driver’s side (for left-hand drive cars) cam

sprocket, and apply a spring clamp or clothespin to hold it in place.

Go around the water pump, and pull the belt tightly over the passenger’s side (for left-hand drive cars)

cam sprocket, applying another spring clamp to hold it in place. Check the cam timing marks. Reinstall the

tensioner arm and tensioner, and run the tensioner bolt up to snug the belt. Remove all rags and clamps,

remove the flywheel lock, and temporarily install the crank pulley. Turn the engine to top dead center and

check all timing marks. Remember that the cam timing marks are on the back side of the cam sprocketsÑ

these are the ones that you can see through the air tubes on the MY 1986 and up engines. Their positions

are indicated in the illustration, but you can’t see the marks from this angle (FIGURE 5). Turn the engine

two turns, and check all timing marks.

BB500 · 05-08-2009, 09:41 AM

Since the car is automatic, I should be able to turn it in any gear position correct? I'm not even sure where the shifter is to tell you the truth. Should be park, but it may not have been put back completely. I will check when I go out there.

BB500 · 05-08-2009, 09:42 AM

plugs are removed as of last night.

rjm65 · 05-08-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean_Fuller

This could be off. On the 32V cars you first set crank at T/D and align back notches to notch in back plate. Then turn crank to 45 degs ( this is the only crank position where the cams can be turned WITHOUT interference) then YOU mark the cam gears. Mine were already marked when the PO did the first job....Once aligned turn crank 2 complete rotations to make sure they still align. If the motor will not rotate try removing the plugs.

Since the gears looked like they weren't marked before the belt was taken off, can the crank be set at 45 deg, turn the cams until the marks line up, turn crank back to TDC, then put the belt on?

Someone did the math previously on how many teeth the cam gears should be off the mark at 45 degrees, but can someone confirm he's off (think it was 3 teeth) in the right direction?

MPDano · MPDano's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjm65

Since the gears looked like they weren't marked before the belt was taken off, can the crank be set at 45 deg, turn the cams until the marks line up, turn crank back to TDC, then put the belt on?

Someone did the math previously on how many teeth the cam gears should be off the mark at 45 degrees, but can someone confirm he's off (think it was 3 teeth) in the right direction?

See figure 5 in my post above yours.

BB500 · 05-08-2009, 10:04 AM

You know, after looking at Dano's picture has me thinking... One of the gears was three teeth past and the other was four. I turned the one gear so it was three teeth past to match up with the other one. Now I'm wondering if I should have turned them both to four since that is how they are in Dano's picture...

MPDano · MPDano's Garage

Pictures are from 928gt.com, I am betting these are the absolute correct way they should look like.