82 Porsche 928 Wont Start -- No Click.. No Turn

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by AaronCross

I'll be fixing this car myself. This is a project car...

not really sure what you mean here.. i've basically done everything that has been recommended so far..

this thread is less than 24hrs old.. I can only physically do so much in a day..

But I do appreciate all your help.

as you say.. all the ground spots, 14 pin, bridging the relay, bridging the security.. all needs and will be done.

I'm personally happy just to hear it run at this point.

My apologies bro if I seem anxious to get you going. I'm a bit impatient at times. Literally what I said in my last post will take less than 30 minutes. It also kinda sounded like your ready to give up by taking it to a shop. Keep up the good work.

[AaronCross]

Right on, I only meant take it to my shop... It's been sitting 10 mins down the road at my house where I have little tools..

Haven't even had a jack..

I'll get the to do list all worked out and report back

Thanks again.

[AaronCross]

Originally Posted by Landseer

4. Instead, it uses a small jumper wire, short and visible / I think its brown, located on a white connector in the spare tire well.

Well.. prize goes to Landseer.. lol. It finally stopped raining so i just went out to remove the relay from the XIV spot and bridge the points..

and I remembered to check the spare tire connection you were talking about.

Found the bridge and wiggled the wire..

got in it and it started(with key) no problems.. over and over again.

Fluke..? Possibly -- Im def. going to go thru and do everything recommended here still..

But What do I do with this XIV Relay spot..? It runs with a relay in it..? Should it not?

..if I remove the relay and bridge it as it suppose to be.. do I run a chance of frying something if the previous owner had rewired it wrong?

Thanks

[Landseer]

Fluke -- possibly. But its been reported before.

EDIT: doing some more research on XIV relay.

[AaronCross]

Just tried removing the relay in XIV.. it does NOT start without it..

..not a clue... But happy it starts..

[Landseer]

Looks like XIV is a relay for automatic, but a bridge instead, for manual until 82.

In 82, XIV became a starter relay for all (same for manual and automatic). Also, a little bridge wire is used, but its not at the CE panel. In the trunk area! The bridge bypasses the automatic safety switch and is installed for manual cars as being that brown wire you wiggled.

This is exactly how my manual 84 cars are setup, with the relay.


Your "win" was either the bridge wiggle (which I tend to think solved it , since I thought of it )

Or your win was because the relay was a little flakey and it just decided to work.

I need to followup with Wally about the 928 specialist chart and get his input.

[AaronCross]

I appreciate all the help for sure!

I feel stupid asking this question but it may be pertinent to this relay situation.. the tag on the door jam says the car was manufactured in 1983.. but all the paperwork says 1982..

..does this simply mean they were still pumping 82's out in 83? would this be cause for the "updated relay" instead of the bridge?

Edit:

aahh.. i see. your saying the 82's were like that.. didnt read the '84 part right.. so regardless the car still would have had this relay..

[Landseer]

Yes. 82, 83, 84 are all the same on this subject. 84 is my personal reference, since I have 2 manuals and an automatic and have studied the hell out of the electrical charts.

Whats the full vin# on this car? That we can decode to confirm the date and the options it shipped with.

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by Landseer

Looks like XIV is a relay for automatic, but a bridge instead, for manual until 82.

In 82, XIV became a starter relay for all (same for manual and automatic). Also, a little bridge wire is used, but its not at the CE panel. In the trunk area! The bridge bypasses the automatic safety switch and is installed for manual cars as being that brown wire you wiggled.

This is exactly how my manual 84 cars are setup, with the relay.


Your "win" was either the bridge wiggle (which I tend to think solved it , since I thought of it )

Or your win was because the relay was a little flakey and it just decided to work.

I need to followup with Wally about the 928 specialist chart and get his input.

Hmm, wonder why this wasn't updated on the 82 Fuse/Relay Chart. Was this in the WSM or experience with 5-Speeds?

AWESOME getting it started using the key though!!!!!!!!

[Landseer]

From triangulating the 928 electrical training documents and the PET by year.
Plus experience with mine, both auto and manual on 84, then backtracking to 82.
We've posted this stuff before, btw, dealing with gunar's relays.

here's a piece of it, kind of a PITA to bring it all together. Note into Wally for his input, btw.

[Landseer]

Then, the three CE layouts from the 928 Electrical Troubleshooting document.

First, see how 82 and 84 are same w/ respect to relay XIV.

I know for a fact 84 Manual must have starter relay to engage starter.
And we've established same for 82 Manual in this thread / must have relay.

Then, look at 80 diagram.... Its cryptic, but it means bridge for manual trans /else/ starter relay for automatic. This is reinforced by the document in the post above.













Also, look real closely at 928 Specialists charts for 80 vs 82 & 84. The manual bridge part number changes for 82 and 84.... same thing in PET.... that part number is different in its class digits, an indicator that it is very different from the "manual bridge" of 80. That's cause its just a wire for the trunk.

[AaronCross]

Originally Posted by Landseer

Whats the full vin# on this car? That we can decode to confirm the date and the options it shipped with.

Doorjamtag:

G&R Automobile
Mannheim Germany
imported by Cadillac Braun
Florida Orlando
date of manufacture 1983

Vin: WP0ZZZ92ZCS800485

[Landseer]

Ha.

So, this is a grey market Euro. Very interesting.
I guess its the 300 HP engine then?
Who here can run that VIN for him?

[JhwShark]

'82'ish...300hp euro, nice...a CIS...would this change which diagram to reference??

[neil30076]

Originally Posted by Landseer

Ha.

So, this is a grey market Euro. Very interesting.
I guess its the 300 HP engine then?
Who here can run that VIN for him?

Comes back as 1982 - M28.09 engine - 4474 cc, 240 hp, G28.05 box
sports seats, leather, rub strips.

[Landseer]

Not on this topic. The charts cover both.



I think the convention is to outline the relay with a dashed line if the position is either a Spare slot or a Situationally-filled slot.

CIS wouldn't have the injector relay XVI that sometimes needs the three-way jumper. So, its shown as situational with a dashed outline.

[Landseer]

So its a 4.5Liter, CIS/KJet.

I think that means it doesn't use the injector relay. Why is one shown in the photo? What does the tape have written on it?

[MPDano]

Take pics of the engine. CIS is a different animal and since it's now a Euro, your Chart will be different. I think I just use the 79 US Model and my Chart. Unless you can find an 82 "Euro" Chart. Engine pics will verify.

[Landseer]

Same chart. Covers both, just have to know how to read in between the lines.
The training manual this comes from covers both.

[AaronCross]

Well, I got a good days run out of her -- but shes back at it..

It does at least click this time when key turned.

I've got some time to rip through all the grounds, 14pin and the relays today.

I'd like to get the starter out and have it tested, but hopefully its just corrosion on the 14pin?

- Also a question, when pop started all the warning lights are on which I know to be correct.. but could this 'mode' make the car run bad?

..flutters so to speak, pukes on itself.

--

So just to verify..

this is a 231, 300 or 240hp engine?

I've never really pulled information for the euro -- not sure on the difference.

Im not sure what were looking for on the engine, but heres a couple different
angles: