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Quote:
Originally Posted by nize View Post
another issue contributing to inaccurate control of the wastegate is that the factory wastegate is a single port. converting to a dual-port wastegate improves control.
Agreed..I am trying to do this with the existing WG. Hence the new control and PWM method.
Sox

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1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #141 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soxnail View Post
Knock retard will happen at the same place. The retard for high boost will shift by 3 psi.
Sox
I don't know what that means but what I'm saying is that the ign might need to be more retarded at this higher boost level for the same RPM vs WOT to reduce the chance of knock occurring.

Mike G.
Old 09-15-2020, 07:21 PM
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sox, i have heard and read many have tried to control the factory single-port wastegate at higher boost levels and have either given up or converted to a dual-port wastegate. i believe the factory wastegate is mechanically incapable of providing the type of fine control you're seeking, regardless of how quickly/accurately you can control the cycle valve.

the solution for me was to go with a dual-port wastegate and an aftermarket solenoid (more accurate/faster than the factory CV) to control boost better.

i hope you succeed but hate to see you waste your time.
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #143 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Goebel View Post
I don't know what that means but what I'm saying is that the ign might need to be more retarded at this higher boost level for the same RPM vs WOT to reduce the chance of knock occurring.

Mike G.
I think I understand what you are asking...The ignition retard vs boost and throttle position will change. It will move 3 psi higher, or pressure related retard will happen latter. I don't know if this is enough to cause knock that the knock sensor driven retard will not be able to overcome. Will monitor and report.
Sox
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1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #144 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nize View Post
sox, i have heard and read many have tried to control the factory single-port wastegate at higher boost levels and have either given up or converted to a dual-port wastegate. i believe the factory wastegate is mechanically incapable of providing the type of fine control you're seeking, regardless of how quickly/accurately you can control the cycle valve.

the solution for me was to go with a dual-port wastegate and an aftermarket solenoid (more accurate/faster than the factory CV) to control boost better.

i hope you succeed but hate to see you waste your time.
I am using a new PWM controllable solenoid instead of the factory CV, see my post in KLR part 2. As to the WG being unsuitable for more precise control, I don't see why a pressure/spring combination could not achieve better control. Will find out....being retired has it's advantages
Sox
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #145 (permalink)
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Stolen form another site




Mike G.
Old 09-16-2020, 08:51 AM
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lindsey is a great knowledgeable guy with great tech articles, a lot are geared towards selling more products and providing product-specific information. as such, he only mentions in passing the dual-port dual-solenoid solution which provides the best boost control. all three examples show what's known as a two or three-port boost controller and leaves out the critical fourth (and best) configuration which uses a four-port boost controller that takes advantage of a dual-port wastegate. a manual boost controller can not operate as a 4-port controller because it requires constant variable on-the-fly adjustments, so you must get an electronic boost controller to take advantage of a dual-port wastegate.

honestly if anyone is going to use one of those three examples (with a manual boost controller!) they are wasting money buying a dual-port wastegate.

more details here:
https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/education/science-boost-part-1-solenoids/5/

and here is an example that takes advantage of a dual-port wg:
https://tier1motorsports.com/collections/mac-control-solenoids/products/mac-4-port-boost-control-solenoid-valve-for-dual-port-wastegate-46a-aa1-jdba-1ba

edit: a quick search on lindsey doesn't turn up any electronic boost controller so it looks like they only sell manual controllers, which explains why they only show the three boost control configuration examples and ignore the fourth.
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Last edited by nize; 09-17-2020 at 06:44 PM..
Old 09-17-2020, 07:31 AM
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here is the fourth and best configuration to control boost. this configuration also allows you to use lower spring pressure so if the controller fails it will default to practically zero boost, providing an additional failsafe against damage.

note the 951 factory cripple mode still gives some boost because it's a single-port and relies on higher spring pressure. increasing the factory spring pressure increases cripple mode boost and bypasses the failsafe.


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Last edited by nize; 09-17-2020 at 07:58 AM..
Old 09-17-2020, 07:43 AM
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Nize the 4 port you have posted above seems to be a on/off system...I am looking for proportional control in my solenoid.
if that is a proportional control solenoid can you post a part number ?
Thanks Sox

Ignore Nize..should have followed the links above.
Sox
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Last edited by soxnail; 09-17-2020 at 09:42 AM..
Old 09-17-2020, 09:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #149 (permalink)
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I think its one of these guys

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MAC-4-PORT-BOOST-CONTROL-SOLENOID-VALVE-SENSOR-turbosmart-haltech-aem-apexi-/322993893903

Mike G.
Old 09-17-2020, 02:17 PM
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Run with new KLR control system....no tweaking yet. WG is still orignal, no CV.
Sox

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1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:26 PM
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Pic of the gauges
Sox

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Old 09-17-2020, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soxnail View Post
Nize the 4 port you have posted above seems to be a on/off system...I am looking for proportional control in my solenoid.
if that is a proportional control solenoid can you post a part number ?
Thanks Sox

Ignore Nize..should have followed the links above.
Sox
just to clarify, the solenoid is on/off but cycles between on/off quickly, and controlling the cycle rate/pulse is how you control boost proportionally. this is the advantage over a manual boost controller.

trivia: the 951 factory cycle valve is called a cycle valve because that's exactly what it does.
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Old 09-17-2020, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Goebel View Post
Thanks Mike.
Sox
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #154 (permalink)
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Nize, Mike et all would y'all go and look at my post in the KLR part2 and opine?
Thanks
SOx

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1986 951"MADDOG" black with maroon interior
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Old 09-18-2020, 12:05 PM
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