PCA class questions?

Fubawu · 10:32 AM

Hi

I was wondering if someone could help me with the PCA class structure. I can't find info on the S class i.e 4S or 5S groups. Is this an old run group designation?
I have also noticed a larger gropu of E class cars SC and Carreras, Is it possible to move a mid year car into one of these classes? If so what modifications are permitted or needed??
Sorry for the vague description just trying to get a slight grasp on PCA. Tricky when coming from vintage racing.

Cheers

Trackrash · Trackrash's Garage

Where are you located? PCA zones (and even regions) all have their own classifications.

Plus there are different classes depending on national autocrosses at Parade. Additionally they class club racing, autocrossing, DEs, and timetrials differently.

What you need to do is contact your local PCA region once you decide how you want to compete.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fubawu

Hi

I was wondering if someone could help me with the PCA class structure. I can't find info on the S class i.e 4S or 5S groups. Is this an old run group designation?
I have also noticed a larger gropu of E class cars SC and Carreras, Is it possible to move a mid year car into one of these classes? If so what modifications are permitted or needed??
Sorry for the vague description just trying to get a slight grasp on PCA. Tricky when coming from vintage racing.

Cheers

PCA Club Racing Rules can be found here
classes are described in the rule book

Dan J · 11-29-2016, 01:52 PM

This is the rule book:
file:///C:/Users/Dan/Downloads/2016%20PCA%20Club%20Racing%20Rules%205.2.16.pdf
There is only one set of rules for PCA
If you post the particulars ( Year and model of your car, Engine, induction,suspension) there are many folks here that can help you

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Dan, your link points to a local file on your computer, which none of the rest of us have access to.

Also, those rules only apply specifically to PCA Club Racing, which is only one series that PCA'ers participate in. If the OP is not talking Wheel-To-Wheel, those rules do not apply. If they are talking about another series that runs with PCA on many or most occasions (e.g., Spec 911) those rules also do not apply.

So, Fubawu--are you talking about the series called PCA Club Racing? Or are you talking about some specific region's track series? Or are you talking about autocrossing, in a specific Zone or Region, or at the annual Parade event? Or something else?

--DD

Fubawu · 04:12 PM

Sorry guys, yes Wheel to Wheel National Club series was my reference.
In regards to the class rules I had a hard time seeing anything other then basic engine size weight and year.

My car is a 77 2.8 single plug stock ignition PMO 40's. Hp is approx 205 whp
5 SPD, zf diff. Coilover suspension which seems to be an issue?, turbo brakes, upgraded bushings and sway bars. Std body car is street registered. 2280 lbs no driver

Thanks

Dan J · 11-29-2016, 05:17 PM

Because of the mods I think your car would be in GT4 S if using DOT tires (Hoosier R7) or R if using slicks (Hoosier R100)
If you click on the link Bill provided and look on page 37 you'll see the table. You should read the whole book it's not too much
Come on out and race it's the most fun you can have with your pants on

Fubawu · 11-29-2016, 05:20 PM

Thanks Dan, any idea what class 5S is?? The cars log book
shows PCA 5S ?is that a class that still exists?

Dan J · 11-29-2016, 06:07 PM

If you add weight you can get there. You'll need to weigh 2550 toget there
Weight is with you in the car though

Fubawu · 11-30-2016, 04:16 AM

So is "5S" GT-5? I can't find any reference to it?

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Yes, GT-5 is the category, then "S" or street tires or "R" for race tires (slicks) The "5S" is shorthand for GT-5S.

--DD

Fubawu · 11-30-2016, 08:36 AM

Thanks Dave!

stownsen914 · 12-01-2016, 04:45 AM

I believe PCA Club Racing did away with the S vs. R designations in the GT classes a few years ago. Now it's just GT1, GT2, etc. Maybe because the numbers have been dwindling in the GT classes as more drivers migrate to the water pumper GT classes. In the older GT classes, I think there's now a 50 lb. weight penalty if you run full slicks - an attempt to equalize slicks vs. Hoosiers and other "treaded" tires.

One other thing to note - PCA may be starting a vintage series, which may be of interest to the OP. There was a separate vintage group at the Summit Point CR race a couple months ago, and it was apparently well received at least by some! I don't have the rules, but I understand that it was for pre-1983 aircooled cars only, and they had two classes - I think under 2.4L and over 2.4L.

Scott

Fubawu · 12-01-2016, 07:59 AM

I like the sounds of that Scott!

1970 911 · 12-02-2016, 04:33 AM

I ran in the vintage class up at summit and it was a great time. You should definitely come out next time. I was 2nd row left.
Regards

Fubawu · 12-02-2016, 01:18 PM

Our cars are twins

Matt Monson · 12-03-2016, 06:34 AM

You can always PM Walt Fricke. He is head steward and physically compiles the rules. He's a member here and very available to Pelican and PCA members. He'll guide you if you need more detailed information.

1970 911 · 12-04-2016, 10:07 AM

Very cool. Come on out lets have some fun

Walt Fricke · 12-04-2016, 07:26 PM

Actually, I am the Technical and Rules Chair for PCA Club Racing. The CR Chair, Chief Steward, and Chief Scrutineer make up the Rules Committee along with me, but responding to classification related questions is a large part of my job. Don't PM me, though. Just e-mail me at walterfricke@msn.com. Works much better for me, and thus for you.

I edit the rule book, so I am also usually interested in hearing why someone has a problem figuring it out. Usually it is because they haven't read it, or if they did, not very carefully. But I don't bring that up, and sometimes wording could be improved, or there is some kind of loop hole or ambiguity. That is the nature of rules - if you go overboard on specificity they get so long the eyes glaze and the meaning is lost. If you try to keep them short, lots of ambiguity creeps in.

For GT, I have a spread sheet sitting on my desk which tells me that a 2.8 can race in GT4 if it weighs 2088 pounds (with Hoosier DOTs) including driver, and GT5 at 2555 (+50 if on slicks). I see a GT4 in the picture shown of the race, and that would be the simplest place for you to run, and no worries over what kind of tire you have. If you want to run a 356 I'd have to do the math, though - we don't see them hardly at all nowadays.

I am also a scrutineer (rules enforcer, so to speak) at some PCA races. In the stock and some of the spec classes you have to run the stock gears. We have a way of checking that, and from time to time I prevail on Matt to tell me or confirm for me that model X from year Y used the following gears.

The Vintage group at Summit was a sort of experiment. There are no National rules for this. The Region (whose idea it was) set the rules for a small number of classes. The National rules for licensing and safety equipment applied, of course. Otherwise pretty much run what you brung, I believe. The Region estimated that they would draw enough cars to fill a run group, and they were correct. Of course, Summit has a whole lot of racers and many older race prepared Porsches within a day's drive, and the economics and number of run groups penciled out for them. Some PCA races have only one race run group, and a Vintage run group isn't apt to be something the sponsoring region can pull off. Lime Rock has a lot of run groups, and they are full. It would be hard for a race like that to squeeze in a Vintage group. Who knows if this will spread, but hats off to the Region folks - as the stewards always say: be safe and have fun.

As a practical matter, it is races with only one run group where some drivers are intimidated driving around at SC speeds with 2016 Cup cars passing them a number of times per session. At the larger races, vintage prepared cars tend to end up in GT5 or GT6, and fit right in with the spec and stock class cars in a slower run group. I think someone with a what he considers to be a Vintage Porsche would have plenty of fun at most of the PCA races.

Scott's memory is very good - with the advent of a national points championship there was more reason than otherwise to try to reduce the number of classes, and doing away with the GT R and GT S distinction was one obvious choice. The extra 50 pounds is, indeed, a result of the resistance of the guys on Hoosier DOTs to accept that those tires have gotten as fast as slicks basically. The first year of the championship series I ran on Rs in GT4, and that was when the classes were separate. I slid into first overall because we still had the R and the S classes. The one event where the S podium guys and I raced each other, they ran away from me. If I get my GT4 back going I'm going to have to figure out how to coax more power out of it, and how to improve my skills, if I have points podium aspirations.

Most Porsches prepared for racing under the various Vintage race organization's rules should fit right into PCA's GT rules in GT6-GT4. GT4s can run with about anyone short of the water cooled Cup cars if well prepared. 205 RWHP is a bit low for a 2.8, though, and hats off for running it on the street too! In regular PCA race run groups you'd probably benefit by adding weight to be GT5 and run in a slower run group. But next year's Summit event sounds like you'd fit right in. Did they have a cap on entries to that group? Always good to keep an eye on things like that so you don't end up disappointed.

Fubawu · 12-05-2016, 06:14 AM

Thanks Walt, I'll send you a email for more details. The Green car above is a 2.5 set up for vintage
racing. Funny enough it is quicker then the 76 2.8 I was asking about. The 76 is a car that is much more street friendly. Full interior, all electronics still work etc.

Cheers
John