need some advice...

[krasuskyp]

I'd say I'm seeking input from you all, alas Raw's Knees would be allllll over that - so, seeking INSIGHT instead.

Soooooooo... yup... here I am folks, been keeping on the down low until now.

Unfortunately my motor let go 9/29/19 (9/30 would have been poetic). Short story is, rebuilt turbo month prior after finding thumbnail sized 'FOD' in coldside impeller (looked like maybe flange gasket material?), and had fuel pressure and ignition tweaked - ran best it's *ever* run.

Went for a sunny Sunday blast w/ my bud in his Carrera, rolling to a stop I smelled some slight burned popcorn. Now, the rest literally happened simultaneously... rolled stop in 1st, light shift into 2nd... felt slightest 'twitch' from drivetrain... smelled burned popcorn again slightly... watched oil pressure flicker / drop... heard the very beginnings of 'clatter'... turned key off. Literally all in one fell swoop. Figure I spun a rod, maybe some header slag or something? No post-mortem yet.

This brings me to today. Knowing I've got 3x kidz in tuition HS's, one of which enters college this fall and 2 more years in $ HS for the other 2 then 4yrs college... I'm coming to terms w/ the reality that - there's zero way I'm going to have the $10k (min) to prob more like $15k to address this.

Sucks, but is what is... I've had a fantastic 13yr / 30k run w/ it certainly.

My question to you all is - what to do? Sell as-is? Fix motor (and everything else), then sell? Trying to do the math of how much 'ahead' of as-is fixing it would get me - I figure I'd just make up the repair bill, or maybe $5-10k more assuming it came out great.

I've got an as-is # in my mind, Chris C. confirmed it (slightly lower), as well as a # of what it was worth minimum before and a # of what worth fully fixed - but, I'd like to hear those from you all if you wouldn't mind sharing.

'87 930 67k mi, Indishrot Red / black sport seats / LSD

Mods:

- V-band'd RL8 hooligan (straight-out right) & open wastegate pipe to match
- SC cams
- freshly rebuilt Jerry Woods Racing Garrett / ITS 0.82 trim
- Powerhaus headers w/ heat
- Bell full-bay intercooler
- Wevo Classic shifter & coupling, w/ lightweight extended Wevo knob
- brand new OE center-sprung clutch
- BLWUR
- Momo Prototipo with Zuffenhaus hub extender
- H1's & relayed 80w/130w
- A.I.R. dp-style front valance w/ brake duct hoses
- Ruf RF corner indicator oil cooler scoop
- Fikse Profil5 black anodized spokes / polished lips: 18x9 / 18x11 running brand new 255f / 295r Pilot Super Sports
- Setrab 172 front mount oil cooler w/custom Len Cummings lines
- dual Bosch 044 fuel pumps, with new tank feed line
- MSD 6AL-2 programmable ignition and blaster coil / coil wire
- Rebel Racing custom-valved rear coilover Bilstein Sports / 500# springs, no torsions
- Neatrix spring plate bushings
- Smart Racing front brake ducts and blockoff plates / Pegasus silicone hoses
- DZug strut bar
- massive oblong air filter atop fuel head
- fire extinguisher mounted to rear center tunnel
- 1bar boost/ vacuum gauge in clock position
- VEMS AFR / EGT in a/c knob position
- GReddy Profec B Spec II electronic boost controller in console
- Euro rear corner lenses
- 3pt rear seat belts
- Rockford Fosgate speakers behind OE rear grilles and OE-looking front grilles, still rockin the Reno 8-)
- Porterfield R4S front carbon/Kevlar pads & ATE Super Blue bleed
- Swepco 201 trans fluid flush
- more recent scavenge pump / cam tower / chainbox / valve cover / breather / trans output shaft seals
- breather catch can w/ petcock drain
- newer battery engine bay tin seal / fan belt / breather hose / distributor vacuum hose
- WBO2 sensor
- separately fused fuel pump circuit
- welded up rear bumper overrider holes
- *full* a/c-ectomy... zero remnants
- *all OE parts GONE*

Needs:

- motor rebuild of 'some' capacity (no visible damage to case etc.)
- trans shifts 100% no grind... if you know what doing. Rushed 4th grinds, sometimes 1st
- paint correction - very old repaint to an excellent standard, few decent stone chips... I'm being picky, cleaned and waxed the car looks *stellar*, tho of course I could point out the few flaws as I've a keen eye for paint
- power locks issue - driver side tumbler inoperative, passenger only unlocks
- sunroof cable - right cable let go, JBWelded, but it's crooked / inop, needs redo
- heater - new cables on bench, new dogbone in center control. Inop, needs attention

Be a *perfect* score for a DIY'er! Rebuild the motor and have a nearly fully sorted gem! Sigh.

Please let me know any and all thoughts if you would... haven't at all made any decisions, been sitting on the concept this long as it is as it makes me sick to my stomach... but I think I've come to terms w/ it's departure. Owning it has always been sort of like a curse... always said I never wanted to be the one holding the bag (queue 'Knees!!!), yet here I am.

Que sera sera dudes.

TIA

[356911930]

Hi Paul,

Sorry to hear about your engine. I was in a similar situation with my 1976 930. I started to prep for paint and rebuild when life changed course. I put the 930 under a tarp because I knew I would never be able to put out the cash to buy another and I loved that car! 18 years later I managed to get it painted and back on the road to do a shakedown period to refresh my memory on the engine condition with oil leaks and ?. About 1,000 miles later I went to retorque the head studs and found a broken head stud. The 930 has been parked and covered in my garage until the day I get the money and time to rebuild the engine and transmission, that was three or four years ago. It now looks like I may be able to start on the engine and transmission this summer if the stars align. I have three young kids and they need a lot of my time so as you know personal time is limited. I know they will appreciate it when I finally get it done.

This may be an option for you. You night want to just wait since there is no immediate rush.

Best of luck with your decision.

Rahl

[JacobS911]

Agree ^^ don't make an RAWKNEEEEEEEEEEEE jerk reactions you'll regret. Let it sit.. maybe look into a diy engine build, or at least ordering rebuild parts here and there. May find yourself in a position sooner rather than later to giterrrduunn!!

[jwasbury]

Paul,

Sorry to hear. I think at minimum you need to assess damage. Firesale of the complete car with blown engine and unknown scope of rebuild I’d think would be lowest return for you.

Once a proper assessment is done, you could either proceed with repair with an eye on eventual sale, or at least be in a position to sell as is with all parties knowing what they are dealing with.

Another option which might be painful, but with potentially better return is to part it out☹️.

If it makes you feel any better. i have two broken Porsches at the moment.

Can you spot the problem😜

[full quack]

Hey there Paul,

If it were me, I'd pull the engine and pop it apart to see whats up.

These things are easy to pull apart when out of the car. As you can take full systems off while leaving them mostly intact. Such as full top end intake system including injection lines, injectors, fuel head, same goes for the full exhaust system w/ turbo.
All you need to do is separate the turbo plumbing from the intake plumbing, then you can get it all off semi-complete.

Separate the engine from the trans and throw the whole engine onto the bench, the rest is just nuts-n-bolts.

There is nothing that can't be temporarily slapped back together so a potential buyer knows that she is ALL there.

Knowing whats needed beats guessing 100% of the time!

My .02 worth.

Mark

[bpu699]

I was in the same boat 3 years ago. 88 930, 60k miles, not a virgin car. My car had one broken head stud, one cam had a lobe with so wear, yada, yada. Missed shift on the track so plan was to disassemble, though motor ran great afterwards...

Offered the car with the motor as is highest offer I recall was 30-35k or so... so, I kept it.

Motors just about ready to go back in, hopefully soon.

Spent 5-10k in parts, and then 2-3 years free labor.

I’m sure it will all be worth it in the end, but part of me wishes I had cold even at low offers...

The older I get, the less free time I have...

[Jim2]

I think you may be jumping to conclusions. When has a spun rod bearing produced an odour? Remove the oil filter and cut it apart, look for metal flake/debris among the filter folds. Drain the tank and sump and look for particles settled to the bottom of your drain pan.

Do compression and leak down. Make sure alternator spins freely, Etc etc. Burnt popcorn smell.. not adding up. Loss of oil pressure doesn't sound good but maybe a fried harness wire took out your oil pressure gauge, though this doesn't account for knocking.

Knock at crank rpm or cam rpm? Stethoscope it, or maybe buy a tech to drop by and try to diagnose if it's beyond you.

Best...

[gsxrken]

Paulie- not what anyone wanted to read. Did wonder where you’ve been but winter sucks etc.
I agree with Jim above. The smell is a weird thing. Minimum pop the valve covers and see what can be seen. Leak down kit doesn’t require cranking the engine like a compression test. Don’t pull the engine without at least doing that much.
You’ll take a severe, not-worth-selling it beating as-is. I get it, though. The last thing you want to be doing is spending time you don’t have, spending money you have other uses for, and all to sell it. That would take a superhuman effort, which is maybe why 6 months have elapsed and you just posted. Feel for ya.

[Dominik 930]

Do not sell the car, it will later be a souvenir of your children. I still have my grandfather's car, a white Passat 1 diesel 54 HP.

pull the engine and see what is broken.

[Alan L]

Agree 110%. You are being hasty - and thinking the worst. Could be some stupid wiring/melt thing.
The point really is you dont know what you are selling and the buyer doesn't know what they are buying - $ wise. = bad for you.
At the moment it really owes you nothing - ie paid for . If you really cant afford to do something now, I would suggest park it. You know where the prices are heading and do you think you could afford one in 10-20 yrs time? Meantime you may find time/$s to tear it apart far enough to find the fault. I would not even be tearing the engine apart right now - some more diagnostics required if I read this right. You never know - you may be up and running for small change and breathe a huge sigh of relief and ever grateful to the Pelicans that saved you.
Good luck - if I was close by I would tear in to it for you.
regards
Alan

[MikeD930]

Wow Paul...that stinks!! Popcorn smell is strange (could be simple electrical problem or extreme overheating). I'd do as Jim2 and others suggested (check the alternator, look for debri in engine oil/filter, leak test, etc).

Meanwhile have a serious talk with your wife and kids to see how they feel about your/their car. If they don't care and want you to get rid of it then that's a bummer (you'd get cents on a dollar). On the other hand if they want you to keep it then at least put it away until your funds are available for engine rebuild.

[930zen]

Paul, my Father went through a similar situation. To this day it is one of his greatest regrets. My two younger brothers and myself all worked while in college - and I think it greatly contributed to where each of us is today. I agree with Mike D above. And... this place would not be the same without you.

[krasuskyp]

Thanks everyone - I appreciate all the thoughts, and even moreso your thoughtfulness / offers. Damn, that's amazing. So many great ones here, I'm forever humbled. Brad & Jacob even called offering to dive in on a rebuild. Beyond the best of the best!

I know all the angles & #'s on this pretty thoroughly, which is why there's really no good answer but hearing from you all helps cement the facts. All of this suckz. Just a matter of picking the least sh!!ttty option lol.

I hear ya MikeD and others, my fam is supportive of mothballing but I'm more the realist of a huge fixed asset sitting where other needs exist (college/HS). Reality is, I might have had to sell it regardless. Now may be just a matter of how.

Originally Posted by gsxrken

Paulie- not what anyone wanted to read. Did wonder where you’ve been but winter sucks etc.
I agree with Jim above. The smell is a weird thing. Minimum pop the valve covers and see what can be seen. Leak down kit doesn’t require cranking the engine like a compression test. Don’t pull the engine without at least doing that much.
You’ll take a severe, not-worth-selling it beating as-is. I get it, though. The last thing you want to be doing is spending time you don’t have, spending money you have other uses for, and all to sell it. That would take a superhuman effort, which is maybe why 6 months have elapsed and you just posted. Feel for ya.

Damn Kenster, every word there - spot ON. Esp the 6mos bit. All of that is exactly where I'm at, and the suggestions to do some prelim CSI are right. I've ostrich'd here awaiting doldrums of winter to subside before I felt like touching it. Doesn't help my daily's got some sort of crankcase pressure issue I've unsuccessfully chased - of course.

I'll drop the oil / cut filter / check for particles and pull valve covers mebbe today, technically today only exists every 4yrs so maybe that means something?

While there is always some remote chance of a fluke here, I 100% heard what was at least the very beginnings of catastrophic clatter as I watched oil pressure flicker and drop and turned the key off. I'm certain there was a failure, just a matter of what.

Doesn't really change much the fact it needs a full rebuild. It was a 67k weepyish motor to begin with, needing general reseal (jugs slightly and cam tower mostly). That is a $10k starter convo DIY. I can get a shop to opine to failure, and either sell as is or fix and sell - but again, any option has pain points here.

Oy. Mebbe someone here knows the opportunity here and wants it 8 )

Again, appreciate all the (non-jockular) support here - you all are simply the best out there, alwayz...

[RarlyL8]

Man sorry to hear this Paul. Yes family comes first. I hated to sell the Red Rocket but with two kids in school I was just happy to be able to stay in the game. If I can help you in any capacity I will.

[Ollies930]

Unless you need the money, don't sell it, because chances are you will never replace it. Take it apart, assess the damage and repair as you can afford. Lots of help and advice available on this board to the extent, that even if you have never rebuilt an engine before, as long as you are somewhat mechanically inclined. Do not be afraid of it because it is a Porsche engine, it is no more complicated than a 350 Chevy, just a few more steps and measurements, that's all. You do not need a shop to do the work for you, charge you $100+ per hour and tack on a hefty markup on parts. All you need is a decent set of hand tools and some mics and a dial indicator. What you cannot buy at Home Depot or Harbor Freight, you can probably borrow from somebody on this board.

[pkabush]

My friend, I’m so sorry.
But, I gotta agree with the rest here. Hold onto it.
Im sure you’ve already looked at all the other options. Probably hundreds of times. We’ve all been there. Look at the reality though.
Unless I’m mistaken, you already sold it, regretted it, bought it back,
enjoyed the hell out of it, and now this... a bump in the road.
In fact, IIRC you’re the one responsible for starting the gofundme thread here on PP for Marks Phenix.
If not for you my friend, he’d be 930less
I’m on the left coast but, I have acquired a few parts over the years.
Whatever you need, if I can help consider it done.

[pkabush]

I don’t have a ton of internal parts but I do have a NOS set of Glyco main bearings that are yours for the taking if needed.

[mark houghton]

That surely sucketh, Paul. When we have a choice to be sans-930, then it's not so anguishing. But when the decision is made for us without our approval - be it a catastrophic mechanical failure or what happened to me years ago - then it's like a kick in the ol' cajones.

My advice mirrors others; keep it, start saving your pennies toward a rebuild. Meanwhile, take your time on your "days off", pull the engine and proceed to take it apart. That won't cost you a dime and in the end at least you'll know what your saved pennies will go toward, or be in a better knowledgeable position it you decide to sell. I can understand having a liquid asset just sitting there, but it never was about a financial return in the first place as these cars give zero $ ROI just sitting there. Only personal pleasure returns.

At my ripe old age and what's now called a "fixed income", aka retired, in your position I would most likely liquidate and take the hit. You're young enough to still have the emotional drive and the physical ability to do what's needed. For me it's a challenge anymore to just change a tire, let alone crawl around under a car. Still, I keep going and wouldn't trade my love affair with 930's for anything.

[Rich76_911s]

Paul,

Ugh dude wasn’t expecting to hear this news.

You gotta tear that engine down and at least see what the issue is. It may not be as bad as you’re expecting. As others have mentioned I think tearing it down is ideal whether you’re keeping or selling. I’d be happy to help out if needed.

Engine builds are big bucks no doubt. But you can take it in bite sized chunks. Get the machine work done on the case. Then move onto the crank and rods. That gets the bottom end mostly done. Then do the heads, followed by cams, rockers, etc. you don’t have to do it all at the same time. Might make it more manageable. Hell machine shops take so long you could basically drop the stuff off and just save $5/day and you’d have all you need By the time they get done ��

I have what I think are a good set of stock P’s and C’s if that’s of any assistance.

Let me know if you need help with anything.

[Tug68]

Ouch Paul this sucks the big one! So sorry to hear this, as everyone has said try and figure out what is wrong before you make a rash decision. I’m in the same boat with the kiddos two going into college in a year and one other in three years, the wallet is definitely going to take a hit. Keep the car and if it is what you ultimately think it is repair it in bits like most have said. It absolutely will not be the same without you here. If there is anything I can do lmk. We are all here for you good luck brother!!!