Strosek 911 RUF finally back and kicking!

[petri]

Rear coilovers to my grey from Rebel Racing as well as RSR rear swaybar also from R(S)R.





And front coilovers with raised spindle heights and upside down Bilsteins. Old steel support setup with torsion bars is upper in the pic to be dropped out completely and lower aluminum one with new coils to be set.





As my green is made with comlete ERP / SRP 935 suspension with all new in it, this budget suspension proved to be quite good as if it is not adjustable like Fox Racing Shocks to bound and rebound. But with a suitable spring loads grey is now great: #700 lbs Eibachs in rear and #450 lbs Eibachs in front with helper springs they gave a great support for the leaning in curves. Green as a little bit stiffer (everything in uniballs, #800 lbs rear with helpers, #500 front with helpers) is an absolutely great to drive in track, and this grey is now just a little bit more comfortable in streets. But I love both. Grey have made a great 12000km this summer as one of my every day rides before Ring trip. Therefore the bottom in the pics is not properly clean. Sorry for that .



[/URL]

[SAY - 642]

Petri * Fantastinen *

Thank-you for sharing the images.

We need some youtube video/ sound bytes

[totle]

Great pictures Petri. Great photos from the ring. Under 8 BTG is very fast. What is your record with the green?
Petri, another option for your engine (if you would keep pistons) is to install a 3.0 crankshaft. Then you will have a 3.3 with 8:5 (or 8:1) CR.
But of course 3.6 Ruf pistons is a much much better option :-)

[petri]

Thx again for your kind politeness as I have been collecting bits and pieces from my garage to put together a sort of rat 'rsr' to have some fun in Ring...

In the setup of 2009 with Green I did some well under 7.30ies in quite dense growd back then. Since then I've had some trouble to find time for getting cars ready and really driving as I have 1 & 2 & 5 years old kids for now as my major interest. Since then Green has got bigger brakes, pedal box, wider tyres and stiffer suspension , so I'm dreaming when I ever find an opportunity to blast it down to Germany and Ring again with the latest setup. I didn't get the testing properly done for this year and I didn't want to repeat the disaster 2 years ago testing it too soon in Germany at full speed.

Next year we have 10th anniversary of Finnish Porsche Sports Cup, so I'm hoping to be capable of doing comeback with Green and then publishing my new Porsche race car...

I didn't expect Grey to succeed so well (as I didn't believe me succeeding so well as there is long time from my last official race), so I wasn't prepared for shooting. I only went to hang around with my guys with new fast Porsches and drive some laps. My bolt-collection-like old piece just managed the trip a sort of well...

Anyway, I am now looking for proper camera setup for my cars, rather with multi camera arrangement to cut some nice stuff out of it. I will have some proper videos for sure. As I can see I'm getting old, and those old times I was most of time blasting out with some fast piece of item (fast boats, skis, cars, bikes, whatever mobiles, you name it...), for now I am looking my kids doing it, so I found this documentation issue as a must also.

I have some other car projects under build, there is maybe something for Pelicans, but probably to other department for now to publish... This has been a great summer to build and try to finish old projects in my garage before getting too many new ones... .

[aseem]

[QUOTE=petri;8336092] 'Ring Ride' blue 928 .


I like what you did to the front bumber of your Ring Ride 928. A bit off topic, but I wouldn't mind some more pictures of this.

[petri]

Here is attached a link to my Pelican 928 section where is more about this 928 and three other of my 928 developments. That section has stayed relatively quiet, but this summer I really got further with our forever projects.

That particular car is simply original Strosek GTR bodywork (front bumper and side skirts) as was in Max & Moritz made 928 Cup car in 90ies.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-928-technical-forum/468682-928-bolt-gluensmoothen-wide-body-kit-front-splitter-side-skirts-2.html

And as you can see my 911s has Strosek parts as well and my own bodywork alterations have been only make them more appropriate for racing purposes. Obviously I admire Vittorios design work throughout for 90ies cars. A sort of period correct parts I would say.

[petri]

I have been playing with a thought to make both of my 911 based turbo cars to be able to use two different bodyworks, which makes four different layouts altogether:

My grey 911 with the latest 964 turbo Strosek based outlook with my own bodyparts as published this summer would be sometimes doubled with 911 iroc rsr replicating look when necessary: tarmac rallies in Mediterrean with smaller brakes, 15" Campagnolo rally wheels etc. And as it is for now, it is a great track day car to keep in Nürburgring.

My grey 911 body photoshopped as now, photoshopped alternative color scheme.


My grey 911 body photoshopped with backdate parts to IROC RSR layout, photoshopped alternative color scheme.



My green 911 with its existing 930 Strosek based outlook with my own bodyparts as driven so far would be sometimes doubled with 935 K4 sharing bodywork for racing purposes and keeping narrow Strosek body when driven in street.

My green 930 body as now, photoshopped alternative color scheme.


My green 930 body photoshopped with possible backdate to 935 Kremer K4 layout, photoshopped alternative color scheme.


Grey is actually quite easy procedure to do it to be just bolt on solution, as I have already all necessary body parts including original metal front fenders with standard lights. Obviously green will be more hard to do for quick body change. Therefore especially rear archs with Strosek forms should be cutted and reinstalled with quick locks to be mounted precisely same mounting points with K4 bodywork.
But if I could make this possible, this way keeping up two 911 bodies with full technics and with 4 different purposes, I think it would be a interesting solution to stretch the usability of my sort of technically track and street proven 911 cores.

There is few such events I would like to join every now and then, and having separately four different looking, but in principal, plenty of similar parts using - quite equal to drive - 911s to join would sound more work to me, than doing some alteration in content of the car for some particular season to join and try to maintain these with proper attitude in between hard ride. And anyway, my grey and green with my modified bodyworks doesn't have any special collectible value whatsoever, so therefore nothing worthless anyway can happen . Grey is already in process to be capable of being double bodied, and I'm doing some serious reseach for the alterations of green. I know dP Motorsport is selling again original Kremer K3 and especially rare K4 bodyworks, the ones they developed for Kremer back then. I have been fond of one for tens of years and as I am dreaming of the 935 kind of intercooler arrangement replacing the rear seats and horisontal cooling fan, I wonder if to go further in replicating 935 gender appearance also for racing purposes with proper space for real fat slick tyres to kill the rest of the GT3 Cup (new ones) cars in club races

[MikeD930]

I think you are a mad man (in a good way) for what you have done to the green and grey cars and now you are planning on creating another version of each! Are you sure you are not Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?!?

[petri]

Are you sure you are not Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?!?

That one I am for sure: if you see me as a 6'5'' slim white collar suit person in my profession and as this crease faced cranky (sanding)dusty dirty monster man in old multilayered thick working clothes in garage especially in my 'body department tent' work, you can easily get to that particular conclusion. When it comes to my shared personality in processes and love to cars, again plenty of reasons for such dual approach. Some of these shared personality issues of mine:

one hand - other hand cases of mine:
- I love factory original classic cars <> I love heavily modified cars
- I love fast street driven cars <> I love fast track driven cars
- I love modern cars <> I love traditional cars
- I love comfortable cars <> I love cars stonehard suspensions
etc.

In this case with these two quite modified, not that collectible 911s as in this case can be seen more through the issue of building and maintenance: everyone who has really driven racing knows how much work there is to build a proper working solid car capable of racing without weaknesses and then after that the amount of maintenance and service it needs to remain as such.
But then the events: historic races, historic rallies, meetings, parades etc. do have cathegory thinking which differs from active clubracing rules in competitiveness. As I wrote, the best solution would be to build 4 completely different 911 cars from which two will differ from two other quite little technically. I feel just too lazy for that.
As an amateur racer without permanent crew and professional workshop the maintenance of keeping too many cars capable of racing just is not the case even if I still would like to participate every now and then to very different events. This creates the dual setup.
The one street 911 (grey) can dress occasionally for rallies with 15" tyres and small brakes with small bumpers and without side skirts).
That's why modern 964 style bodywork can be temporarily removed and replaced with rally one. Also if driving some rally, the paint do destroy quite easily with stone chips even if you don't crash, so different bodyparts (front hood, front bumper, front archs, rear bumper) for rally purpose are only smart. They must be removed anyway after rally to be painted, why not then to dress same car with street parts to have it in use meanwhile preparing rally parts.

The another 911 (green) can dress to (club)serious track events with widest slicks possible for time attack purposes and for club racing to really challenge modern GT3 Cup cars.
That's why the wide bodywork, the need of fitting wide slicks has remained long time and I've been searching the solution: earlier in this thread I had a stoopid idea (photoshop) of spreading this smooth curvy green Strosek body with extra wheel archs and luckily I decided not to as it has a great flow in its form right now. But I want to have occassionally maximum slicks because then this engine and brake combo with excellent suspension can be occasionally outmeasured in the way it deserves .

And if you like to call such dualism Dr. Jekyll - Mr. Hyde setup, you are probably very right.

I would rather say that for instance green is still like sleeper with its street tuning Strosek outlook for the performance potential it is capable of. Therefore it would be liberating for it to let it be sometimes K4 kind of hard working character to feel free in track rather than be dressed all the time to its smooth sleeperlike Strosek evening dress.

[petri]

Here some sketches of my latest reasearch of underbody aero I never finished completely.

In principle I have studied more of the golden years of downforce (ground effect cars) 1981-83 when many things were still ok for FIA before continuous limitation of underbody tunnel structures.

I figured out for my small understanging some differences between 'single wing underbody' and 'double wing underbody' (like in 956 prototype and first versions until forbidden in FIA C-group series) with a air wave under the front body:


I understood IMSA and some other series also adapted to that doublesail arrangement (some kind of borrowed sketch of suction power under the car with different arrangements:




Norbert Singer said about 956 that the downforce and grip of the front part in 956 was almost completely adjusted through alterations and adjustments of the aerodynamics in the rear end, which tells lot about the characteristics of upside down wing car.

The massive tunnel under early 956:


The underbody of Ferrari Enzo:


This is where I have got after some studies. Now as the green 911 is finished for the following season, I have plenty of time to build this underbody arrangement: front and side parts fiber structured, centre plate aluminum, rear diffuser fiber + aluminum structure.






My aim is:
a. to get rid of slowing rear wing when getting also rid of the lift of rear in over 270km/h speeds this car has now without rear wing.
b. create better grip to front to be able to drive through very fast corners with less need to add grip to front with soft left foot braking when still flat out and pedal in metal.

This means that the major point to create more ground effect is located under the centre of the 911 rather than under thre rear of the 911. Therefore prior to underbody structure is fast flow under the seat of driver, when the function of rear tunnel / diffuser is only to be best possible to create more acceleration for the air escaping from under middle part of the car and it isn't therefore that precise of its laminar capabilities rather than centre of car is.

If developing similar system under my becoming racing 928 (slow progress shown in other thread) the centre point for needed ground effect would be little bit more towards the rear end than in 911.

This much for now. Progressing...

[Crown]

Interesting, I always thought the position of the engine would be to obstructive for these types of tunnels to work.

[petri]

Gee, I haven't heard that before . Yes, there is some things to be resolved, that is true. Cooling for first (see earlier in this thread what I have: overwhelming large collection of three coolers in front.
Second: he cooling air of fan must be controlled under car after it has passed the riveted cylinders. I will show in my developing design how I have thought about it.
Third: the form of rear part of aero underbody (diffuser) in details is not that crucial in this kind of full length underbody arrangement as it is if you have overall flag bottom and only aero is the diffuser and splitter. Even in old C group arrangements there was plenty of suspension and exhaust elements in the tunnel freely, especially others than Porsche. They do disturb the air flow, but the big picture is most important.
Most important part in underbody aerodynamics is under front axle and floor plate under driver. Rear needs mainly to be just continuously growing tunnel(sectionwise) so it can be done many ways under and around the engine.

[MikeD930]

Originally Posted by petri

Gee, I haven't heard that before . Yes, there is some things to be resolved, that is true. Cooling for first (see earlier in this thread what I have: overwhelming large collection of three coolers in front.
Second: he cooling air of fan must be controlled under car after it has passed the riveted cylinders. I will show in my developing design how I have thought about it.
Third: the form of rear part of aero underbody (diffuser) in details is not that crucial in this kind of full length underbody arrangement as it is if you have overall flag bottom and only aero is the diffuser and splitter. Even in old C group arrangements there was plenty of suspension and exhaust elements in the tunnel freely, especially others than Porsche. They do disturb the air flow, but the big picture is most important.
Most important part in underbody aerodynamics is under front axle and floor plate under driver. Rear needs mainly to be just continuously growing tunnel(sectionwise) so it can be done many ways under and around the engine.

Hey I did not know you ditched the studs for rivets for the cylinders/heads!

Seriously, I've always thought there's lack of concern (or maybe lack of understanding?) among Porsche designers/aerodynamics leaving areas wide open within the wheel wells.

[petri]

Sorry for bad English, I meant the air cooling cast stripes form outside of cylinders. 911 is a car which didn't need so much more of rear downforce over what you can achieve with rear spoiler, so I think factory didn't care of it too much. Understanding of underbody aero in 70ies was obviously by any means harsh. For early 911s the suspension adjustment to put front little bit lower than rear partly made the underbody aero effect in some point. But how far from understanding they were 917 development tells: aerodynamically designed longtail was worse than later developed short tail which probably by accident created some more downforce for the rear.
However I got interested of the idea to use underbody aero for the better front tyre grip as they have done in 956. Very sophisticated nice diffuser is necessary if there is a rule diminishing its maximum volume. But if there is no rule for underbody aero, it is obvious that most effective arrangement can be done with full length aero system. And in such setup the main task for he rear part is to have continuously growing sectional dimension. I think the canal arrangement between rear tyres and around the engine can be done and it doesn't have to be super finished by its form and surfaces. The most important part for the precise and fluent airflow is floor area under driver in front of engine and second important under front axe, and around transmission. Under and rear of the engine comes after these, so their importance for aerodynamical precision is not so important but the growth of dimension towards the rear.

[petri]

My green Strosek 911 got its RUF BTR engine back again after some rehearsal of rebuilding, with some mods:





I did some more stiff solid mount solution to get rid of all imprecision in shifting:

[petri]

Engine back in its bay with Holset hybrid turbo replaceing KKK 27-32 at least for now:


These I did service properly with 0 hours condition, to put them to storage: as I am going to race heavily with this engine in near future, I save these for the later restoration purposes.


We will race with hybrid Holset and B6 intercooler for now:

[petri]

Green back in business in our 10th year anniversary of Porsche Club Racing in Finland in celebration race. Oldtimer in group of more modern Porsche Cup cars. They are with slicks as I am driving with R888 Toyos... .

[kenikh]

Jay Zuss...this car is other level.

[Ukusto]

Petri,
Good work - car looks great.
Thanks for posting!

Iain

[petri]

Thanks . This old 1982 born green war horse has been serving me already decades in its different forms, still street legal in Finland and Europe, which makes it cool autobahn weapon (I consider this as a sort of outlaw in its real sense, but street legality makes verbal 'outlaw' boosting lame) . As my grey 911 has had similar story as my second 911 to experience rear engine feeling, but so far with natural aspirated form.

Here some shots of it in its latest form in Nürburgring, some easy 7.42 - 7.53min. BTG times in growd with (so far) standard 3,6L twin plug 250hp engine which is not yet tuned. This engine is going to be rebuild to more rsr specs during this winter with new more aggressive camshafts, rsr exhaust with x-over centre rear exit and some engine management alterations. Considering some single or biturbo engine setup for this too.






which are






RebelSRacing provided Blestein suspension starts to be perfect with RSR swaybar in rear, 265mm front and 315mm rear R888 tyres are in balance with 993 Big Reds brakes which are big enough ( but rsr pedal box will be added to share front rear bias).

My long time project to do aero parts (bumpers and side skirts) to both cars succeeded well from my point of view: they try to be a sort of retro (could have been done like this in early 90ies) rather than optimal with the aero knowledge of today. And they have proved to be working both in high speeds in German freeways and in tracks. Obviously outlook of these cars shares opinions, but I made them to me as I want them, so they do serve my needs for now. To both cars I do have classic traditional RSR parts already if I want to backdate them to their origins, to -82 and -77.