Digital WUR plus? ( FrankenCIS )

[Walt Fricke]

1) The stock CIS has two screw adjustments - one is the idle bleed air screw, which bypasses a closed throttle butterfly at idle, leaning the mixture. This is how we are told to set the idle speed with the stock CIS. Obviously, I think, you would do this with the WUR/engine warm. Should work with the Franken CIS WUR, I'd think, even though a program can also do this? But I think this is something a guy could just play with, to see what the best way to adjust might be - perhaps set it, then use the programming to fine tune?

The other is the emissions control screw, if you will - the small socket head screw sometimes hard to engage with your small long Allen. In the stock CIS, the geometric effect of this setting is going to influence the relationship between the air sensing plate and how far up the central fuel distribution piston is pushed. With the Franken WUR, again the programming can influence the counter pressure on the top of this piston. Again, I'd think you could use some sort of standard setting, and then use the EWUR or the EFV or some combination to do any further adjusting. The programing/recording ought to let you know what you might want to do with the various settings to get the AFRs you want.

2) I am still in the dark about this one:
VE2 table. The "default" table is all "1"s. How does that compare with the regular CIS duty cycles of 50 or 55 or 65 etc? I get that the FWUR should just adjust the control pressure (absent deep tuning which suggests using it with more precision) pretty much the same as the WUR does. And the FV then tunes things based on inputs. What would a base VE2 table look like?

Helpful hints make clear that setting the FWUR at 100 is a good place to start (and maybe can just stay there if the FV is being used), but I've not been able to find a suggestion on where to start the FV table. I don't understand the rationale for the default/starting program to populate the FV table with all 1s.

I raced all summer with the stock CIS because I couldn't get everything to work - I was glad I had set things up so I could pretty much just put the WUR back in and hook back up the stock ECU. But I'd like to get this going for next season.

[Reanimotion]

Regarding the VE2 table.
the all 1s is a Microsquirt default, not of our making, as we don't supply a base tune.
therefore out of the box some settings are at odds with what we need to get things running

- 50% center on frequency valve is half the range of 0-200 in the VE Table

The VE2 table is only used in K-Jet lambda, and only if Dual table is turned on in the firmware
so the baseline cell settings in both VE1 and VE2 should be 100 if using dual tables

Otherwise VE1 is used for both the Frequency Valve ratio and the eWUR pressure offsets, and VE2 can be ignored

The intention is to have the system enabled in stages as needed.
beginning with just the warmup curve and the rest set to baseline
adjust the mechanical side to factory specs
then progressively enable and adjust the FrankenCIS side to suit

[Walt Fricke]

Thanks, Steve
I'll just set VE2 at 100 to start with. This (setting it at 1) might explain why I couldn't get things to idle or run well in my garage. Then chase my other gremlins, which probably are due to some wiring mishaps, despite best efforts to keep wiring documents, both by connections here and there, and by function from start to finish.
Walt

[flightlead404]

FWIW I am using in dual table mode, I use the WUR settings for a base and then did some minor tweaking in the FW. I figure one is for gross changes, but works slower, the other for fine changes and works more quickly. I can see mixture changes within 1/10 second.

Currently not running in closed loop mode, probably never will. I would like to run in closed loop for idle < 1,500 much like the stock CIS but the software won't let me. You can only set closed loop ABOVE but not below a threshold

[Rital24]

Originally Posted by Reanimotion

possible it's going into fuel-cut during cranking

make sure the cranking RPM is set low enough in "Cranking / Startup Settings"
it should be 50-100 rpm below your lowest normal cranking speed

mine is set to 50

Thank you Steve!

I've checked rpm on my PC display during cranking, effectively I see that it fluctuates from 150 to 0 rpm, clearly when the ecu reads 0 the DPR goes to negative value.
I've changed the VR sensor with a new one but the problem is still there, during normal drive conditions the crank sensor works great, I've data logged some minutes in normal drive condition, no issue at all.

[Walt Fricke]

404 - I had noted in your prior (highly useful) posts that the WUR would be base, and the stock FV the fine (and faster) tune. But until Steve enlightened me, I had no idea of what to set the FV value at to start.

[Rital24]

I've found the problem but not solved:
I can see, using composite logger on tuner studio, sync lost during cranking,
Checked also battery voltage, it goes to 8,5 volt immediately then to about 10 volt during cranking.
I'm trying with "noise filtering" setting and checking ground.

[Rital24]

For all those who have the same problem I solved it reducing cranking dwell from 6 to 4, don't ask me why...

[Reanimotion]

Excellent news, congratulations

[R5Turbo]

Hello,

for a quite long time I had the Franken CIS sitting in my workshop. Now finally the parts did find their way to an Renault R5 Turbo. I realy enjoy reading all the posts about the Franken CIS and the different installation, and I'm looking forward to get going with my installation on the little Renault. I did allready some stuff and did run some tests (crnak trigger, fuel pumps, ignition test mode, etc.). Yesterday I got everything together and tried to fire uo the car. But allready on swithing on the ignition the trouble started as without the engine turning over the ignition coil fired. Most likely there is something wrong in the wiring, or some noise on the crank trigger signal.




Any ideas where I could start to look at to solve the problem?

Looking forward to the first engine start

Regards,

Dirk

[WERK I]

Can't help you with the ignition issues, but I gotta tell you, that is one awesome car. I look forward to hearing of your progress.

[R5Turbo]

One more picture, as I saw that the last one was very old (still having the Unwired tools block on the cylinder head mounted)

[Reanimotion]

This is a guess, but is good for safety

delay the main power to the coil until the engine is cranking.

maybe same relay as fuel pump??

[R5Turbo]

Hi Steve,

thanks for your reply. Is it possible with the Microsquirt to delay the power to the ignition coil?

Next steps will be to measure with an Oscilloscope on the crank signal if there is any noise going on. If yes, this could be handled with a better shielding, or the available noise filter in Microsquirt.

Next steps will happen comming weekend.

Regards,

Dirk

[Reanimotion]

Good morning,

refer to the Microsquirt "MSExtra" manual
Section 3.3 page 15
the ignition system should be powered from the fuel pump relay output.

[R5Turbo]

Thanks Steve,

I will check if the ignition coil power supply is switched via the fuel pump relay.

Regards,

Dirk

[R5Turbo]

Hi,

finally the engine fired up first time yesterday evening and did run . . . . . . sort of running . . . .

Lot of questions popping , and I hope I can get some answers here.

1. I did some tests with CP adjustment. So I did switch on the fuel pumps (not via testing mode, just bridged the relay).I changed the K-Jetronic CP base map, to see if the system does react to the change. This worked, however the number in the map where different (by about 90 kPa less) to CP target and CP itself, see followingpicture. Question: Is there any offset somewhere in the system, which explains this difference? Or are the numbers in the map in relative pressure and the numbers in gauge in absolute pressure? Also question on the functionality of the map. Is the Base map just the starting target and the system is then reacting to Lambda and adjusting CP? Is this happening even if Auto Tune is switched off? ny functional description which shows the interaction between CP base target map, Lambda control, VE table and all




Next picture is from a log file with engine running. As it is visible CP is a flat line sitting at about 100 kPa. THe CP target seems to react to AF ratio (going lean, reducing CP target). However, as the CP is very low, the system is not capable to bleed more (CP duty at 95%). Also I gues that the back pressure in the line will be not less then about 100 kPa, so it wil be not possible to reduce CP even more. Also here the question, is the shown CP target and CP in absolute or relative pressure?



Any suggestions will be highly welcome.

Best Regards,

Dirk

[R5Turbo]

One more question about the CP pressure sensor. Is the calibration for the 100 PSI sensor (Sensor type as it was delivered with the Franken kit) correct? 0V = -86.2 kPa and 5 V = 775.7 kPa?

[R5Turbo]

Ok, first answer I can give myself. The change in CP target is comming from a change in the VE table, which is not flat in this running condition. So no controling active, just numbers comming from the VE1 table.

[R5Turbo]

SO question is still how can I change the system that CP is reaching CP target and are the shown pressures in absolute or relative numbers, or is there any factor / offset between CP map numbers and displayed CP?