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umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Digital WUR plus! ( eCIS - FrankenCIS )

Before I begin, I'd like to apologise for owning a 928 and posting here but I see that the UTCIS and similar modifications to the K-Jet seem to be most frequently discussed here.

A properly adjusted and serviced K-Jetronic / CIS system is the preferred and cheapest way to go. The BL WUR seems to be the best adjustable option so far and still requires little modification to the rest of the car.

If you are crazy or there is a valid reason such as originality or historic racing classes etc. then this might be an option for you.



Refer to the bottom of this post for the current up to date project information and requirements including Install Parts List

Why FrankenCIS?, I'm not really sure other than it seemed like a cool but oddball way of getting programmable EFI in the old beast.

I've had a MicroSquirt in the car for a couple of years now with custom firmware to control the 996 instrument cluster and S4 fans amongst other things like the ClimaTronic head and Audi RNS-E. I've been following the MegaSquirt install threads on rennlist with interest and even collected most of the required bits to do the changeover when I pull the engine for a seal and hose refresh.

Then I started thinking the existing system is a bit crude but working well and VERY reliable, so what would I lose by changing to real EFI.
1. The existing base tune - I'd need to completely retune the car from scratch.
2. the almost atom bomb proof reliability
3. the factory look in the engine bay
Plus I'm quite OCD when it comes to a factory built look to things, meaning a lot of work to do it properly and "if it aint broke don't fix it!" should apply wherever possible.

Well after some research, I then chickened out and shelved the EFI plan as the CIS system is working fine, but the silly side of me then thought "Hey, what about a digital WUR?"
A few weeks of internet research later and it appears the small number of previous attempts by others have either had flaws in control or execution or failed to kick off.

I then looked at the wish list from one of the ex-users of the UTCIS
Quote:
1) Instead of entering control pressure, it should use a wideband 02 sensor in a closed loop system. That way you enter AFRs instead of control pressures (which is ultimately what we are trying to control)

2) The control pressure should be measured at the DWUR and electrically sent to the "brain" (Mine has a thin fuel line that can be easily kinked)

3) Random loss of programmed values should be fixed.

4) Output a warning signal whenever AFR is say 0.5 points above the requested value.

5) Let the software import/export the maps as excel or csv or text files that way it is much easier to optimize your map

6) Let it auto-tune itself, given the AFRs of point #1
and the penny dropped - use the MegaSquirt family to control a properly engineered digital WUR.

I own a software company and an engineering firm so voila, we have a little side project

Now as this is a MegaSquirt based project, the firmware for the MS is being written to be basically hardware independent and the project is being run in the spirit of the MegaSquirt family i.e. semi open source / hobbyist. So DIY from junkyard or parts bin bits will certainly be possible, and even reviving a non-stepper UTCIS if you have one, therefore I will be posting this as a make-it-yourself type thread even though we will be producing and selling a really nice modular anodised metering block elsewhere.

The FrankenCIS concept works and is now operational on the bench, so what is it?

FrankenCIS is a software and hardware project to allow the MegaSquirt family of engine controllers to replace the Bosch WUR.
In its simplest implementation - mimicking the WUR by a temperature to bar map and closed loop pressure control. With optional interceptor like +- control of fuel mixture using the full mapping abilities of the MegaSquirt family.

More advanced implementations - the sky is the limit really. Spark and Idle control. Full fuel mapping. Closed loop wideband O2 control. Boost enrichment and or pressure control. and so on.
How are we doing it?

MS2Extra firmware has been modified to change a "Squirt per Rev" to mapped fuel pressure control on Injector1. The target pressure is taken from a new map representing the WUR basic bar/temp curve and then modified by percentage according to changes in the remaining tuning options.




What it needs:
- a pretty anodised metering block - or a late non-stepper UTCIS if you have one - or some hardware bits if you are going the boneyard / parts bin DIY route.
- sense the actual fuel control pressure, we do that with a digital pressure sensor in the metering block, but a simple bosch oil pressure sensor or similar will do the trick. (Boneyard bit #1) Do make sure whatever you use is rated for fuel, as a massive fuel leak under the hood is a very a bad thing.
- control the pressure bleed and therefore the control pressure, we do that with a standard side feed fuel injector in the metering block by modifying the open time at a set frequency in response to the difference between the actual and target fuel pressures, the longer it's open per pulse the more the fuel pressure bleeds of then the lower the control pressure. again an alternative would probably be a fuel pressure frequency valve from an early CIS vehicle with O2 sensor control (CIS-lambda and Boneyard bit #2)
from an early 80s VW something like this could be adapted too
- Engine Temp - a temp sensor bolted to the block or tapping into the engine coolant temp to will do nicely.
- MAP sensor - 1 bar rated for NA - 3 or more for turbo or charged applications
- Engine revs rpm output from the CDI to the Tach

What would be nice:
- RPM and Position - the good old green wire if you want to take over basic spark control, over that any of the available crank sensor options up to the 60 tooth flywheel would allow silly levels of resolution and control for spark and fuel. I'm personally going for a modified distributor with 24-1-1 VR as a compromise with a single coil.
- O2 sensor - narrow or wideband, for AFR target control. a wideband unit would obviously be better for range and to use the Tuner Studio semi-self tuning option. We will be using the LC-2 as it's one of the ones MegaSquirt already knows how to talk to.
- PWM Idle valve to allow the system to control idle speed - I'm personally having my staff make one to look like the original IAC
- TPS - basically the more sensors available to the system the better the control and tuning options become


A MicroSquirt or MegaSquirt II is the sensible minimum needed to control it.
(MS3 or MS3Pro if you are willing to do your own software mods and testing will give you a wider range of advanced toys including the CEL warning light option asked for.) no longer recommended

The good news is almost everything carries over to a full EFI system if you ever decide to crossover to the dark side (or is that leave the dark side)


****************************
additional from 23/9/14 >
****************************

Reference Install Parts List

MicroSquirt (tm) MicroSquirt Engine Management System DIYAutoTune.com (30 inch harness) or the longer 8' harness option MicroSquirt Engine Management System DIYAutoTune.com (8 foot harness)

FrankenCIS (tm) Metering Block #1 or #2
Injector - Delphi FJ10409 Fuel Injector (Single) For Dodge Chrysler Eagle 1993-1997 New Delphi FJ10409 11B1 Fuel Injector 4573062 4G1156 FJ208 | eBay
CP sensor - from Ahead Instruments (eBay store 100psi items - Ahead Instruments eBay Store)

Pressure Damper ( if using FrankenCIS #2 ) Denso 23270-62010 (xref to AIRTEX 3G1015 WELLS FD424 STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS FPD4 )
Gasket for above damper Toyota 23232-41081 http://www.toyotapart.com/23232-41081.html

MAP sensor - Denso
IAT sensor - BOSCH 0280130085, PORSCHE 99360611400 SEAT, SKODA, VW 058905379, FAE 33226
Engine Temp sensor - Bosch 996 unit
WBo2 - Innovate LC2
(to suit a particular application the four sensors above can be substituted with anything compatible with MegaSquirt)

Last edited by Reanimotion; 12-04-2014 at 07:52 PM.. Reason: Reference Parts List
Old 07-12-2014, 03:37 AM
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umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Code and simulated testing on the bench completed for
K-Jetronic with Digital WUR or parallel bypass Bosch WUR and frequency valve with pressure targeting

K-Jetronic / Lambda with control of both OEM or DIY (Andial or similar) Frequency Valve and optional Digital WUR or Bosch WUR with bypass with separate mixture and AFR maps for each if needed

KE-Jetronic with OEM Differential Pressure Regulator which probably isn't relevant here but in theory would allow a late KE alloy fuel distributor to be adapted and fully controlled
The frequency valve and WUR bypass combination is probably the most interesting as it seems to be the most common mod here. Add one or two compatible fuel pressure sensors for Control Pressure and System Pressure and a wideband for AFR and you have a flexible and comprehensive base for tuning and logging most of the existing setups I've seen here.

In addition simple things like AFR High and Low warning light or buzzer if a pre-set limit is exceeded already exist in the system.

My next step is in-vehicle testing to make sure we have the actual control seen in testing.



Am I on the right track?

Separating detailed overall MegaSquirt discussion from specifics on this implementation will make things clearer for everybody following along.

So MegaSquirt Engine Management Systems for the basics and read up on the MegaSquirt in the features and documentation sections.
Specific docs covering the CIS features are underway and will be available in this thread and our website when ready.

If you feel the need to peek at the possibilities, download a copy of TunerStudioMS from EFI Analytics at tunerstudio.com
a sample CIS vehicle project can be downloaded from http://www.FrankenCIS.com/ms2extra/MS-FrankenCIS_sample.zip unzip it and open in Tunerstudio to play offline, no hardware required.

Last edited by Reanimotion; 11-25-2014 at 03:57 AM.. Reason: added megasquirt info
Old 07-15-2014, 07:55 AM
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In simple terms ? You will be offering a dwur & software controlled by a ms ecu. This replaces the stock/blwur, and retain the cis system. Will you be offering a package with the above items and whatever basic sensors needed to get this going? Then, the only thing needed is the ms? What type of laptop is needed to run the software?

I'm in the middle of a 3.0 rebuild and still looking at some options. Either rebuilding the fuel head/wur and most likely replacing the injectors, or a basic efi. Since I have the cis stuff I'm leaning towards using it.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:26 AM
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Whatever flavor of MS is used, this project would be best approached with the sensors above. Some 930s have them (e.g. O2) some don't. The assumption needs to be made that if your old 930 doesn't have it, you should add it to, mitigate complexity and feature creep.

In this vein, a similar notion was discussed at length on mechanical fuel injection from pre-74 (US) cars. The viability of replacing the fuel rack with a solenoid to actuate the fuel delivery system, based on load sensing and exhaust sensors, et al, was discussed. It was considered doable using MS, but the total addressable market was too small to make a viable product, the system was very complex and the shift in the market toward originality, killed the project.

CIS seems a more likely candidate - there are more cars and more headroom for performance over stock. It is also MUCH simpler than MFI.

A solenoid actuated CIS system, with adjustments made in real time via measurements from the modern sensors used in an EFI system, would be wickedly cool and adaptable. Turbo/non-turbo CIS cars, as well as non-Porsche CIS cars would be viable from one project. There's your total addressable market.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:52 AM
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umop apisdn
 
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To clarify - this is a project we put together deliberately for a DIY solution, so we intend it to be roll-your-own as far as the hardware goes. Although we have written portions of the MegaSquirt software (the recent CAN broadcast stuff started from one of my projects) we are not dealers or tuners so would be reluctant to even try to supply a kit.

What I will be doing is testing and developing against a readily available set of parts and presenting a few options, so you can cobble together your own setup as the project moves forward. We do have a design in play at the moment for a two piece metering block for my vehicle which might be marketed, but honestly there is no need for it and DIY is the way to go. Thierry25's thread from 2009 shows a good sample of the best setups without the 'bling' plus a huge amount of data that helped us immensely, so this is a pay-it-back to the community.

This project could either replace or live with the existing stock/BL WUR and definitely keeps the remainder of the CIS system.

The software for the MS when ready will be released for free to anyone who wants it We've run the tuning software on a 10 year old laptop with windows XP and its fine under Windoze 8.1 too so pretty much anything with a serial port should do.

I ran through the same decision process over CIS v EFI which is why this thing happened. I didn't want to go through the pain of tuning the thing from scratch and felt CIS just needed a little extra help to be refined.

Bosch state in their technical docs that K-Jet was designed for performance and it was only emissions requirements that moved them away from it.
Old 07-15-2014, 08:56 AM
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umop apisdn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
There's your total addressable market.
Agreed and that's why we are happy to give it away here. Although it's a sharable toy for my Porsche, Mercedes KE-Jet is the identified market for us commercially.
The internal position sensors on the metering plate and the DPR's are starting to fail at a fairly frequent rate, the happy by-product of that project is tuneable K-Jet.
Old 07-15-2014, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
pretty much anything with a serial port should do.
Fortunately, the Serial to USB Emulator works, too. My Surface Pro 3 (and my previous 4 laptops) don't even have serial ports.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:26 AM
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It seems odd that megasquirt uses serial ports. Maybe these will help people with computers newer than something with windose 98se, or 2002 with xp sp1.

USB TO RS232 SERIAL DB 9 PIN COM Port Converter cable for Windows XP WIN 7 - Newegg.com

Staples USB-to-Serial Adapter | Make More Happen at StaplesŪ
Old 07-15-2014, 02:13 PM
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I've been wondering when CIS might get some attention. I'm subscribed and very interested. The idea of a "stock look" is VERY appealing to me.

Tom
Old 07-15-2014, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
It seems odd that megasquirt uses serial ports. Maybe these will help people with computers newer than something with windose 98se, or 2002 with xp sp1.

USB TO RS232 SERIAL DB 9 PIN COM Port Converter cable for Windows XP WIN 7 - Newegg.com

Staples USB-to-Serial Adapter | Make More Happen at StaplesŪ
That's what I was referring to.
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:49 PM
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Looking forward to seeing it work. Let the fun begin!
Old 07-15-2014, 05:05 PM
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Whoa, you are making lots of friends here I bet! Kudos.
Old 07-15-2014, 05:24 PM
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Subsrcibed !!
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:46 PM
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Subscribed.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:53 AM
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Subscribed! and willing to try it out.
Old 07-16-2014, 09:43 AM
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Porsche Crest



I am very willing to help w custom Metric fittings if needed. This is what I have for Fuel pressure monitoring on a SC..........



I can make up custom CIS Lines in braided SS as well............



For inquiries, please email me only. No PMs, NO PM's.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

Old 07-16-2014, 02:05 PM
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umop apisdn
 
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A pressure sensor in the control pressure feed is definitely a must have - even just for logging purposes.

I'm testing a small and inexpensive digital 0-100 (7 bar) unit that seems to be available on eBay for around USD24.
A T-fitting in the line or a 1/8npt drilled and tapped into the side of one of the aftermarket injector holders for those with the bypass injector setup. The little block and banjo fitting above would be nice too.
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Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 07-16-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
It seems odd that megasquirt uses serial ports. Maybe these will help people with computers newer than something with windose 98se, or 2002 with xp sp1.

USB TO RS232 SERIAL DB 9 PIN COM Port Converter cable for Windows XP WIN 7 - Newegg.com

Staples USB-to-Serial Adapter | Make More Happen at StaplesŪ
These Serial-to-USB adapters will work with Windows Operating Systems up to and including Windows 7. Windows 8.x is a no-go.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:22 PM
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umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Yes, Windows 8.0 is a no-go as Microsoft figured serial ports were unnecessary and removed the feature.

The Windows 8.1 update fixes the missing com port issue so USB-Serial is back.
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1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 07-16-2014, 04:41 PM
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And you can manually install any win 7 driver on windows 8.
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Old 07-16-2014, 05:48 PM
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