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I think that is a great video. He touches on the single most important element of handgun shooting - our subconscious aversion to the whole thing. When teaching new shooters, that is absolutely the thing we struggle with the most. It's simply an unnatural, very unsettling thing to do, firing a handgun.

My greatest success is to always start them with a .22 of some kind. I'll keep them going on that until they are the ones begging for something bigger. Once introduced to something bigger, we always go back to the .22, always making sure the majority of the shooting is done with the .22, no matter how much experience they accrue.

I do disagree with a couple of his points. The main one with which I disagree is his admonition to hold a steady sight picture on target while slowly squeezing the trigger. No one can do that. The sights will always move around on the target. The idea is to time your final squeeze so that as the sights sweep and circle the target, the gun fires when they are centered.

And yes, we always use the sights. Always. Unless your adversary is close enough that presenting the gun may have it taken away. When shooting quickly at close range, we use the "flash" sight picture as espoused by the late Col. Cooper, and taught at his Gunsight Academy. Focus on the front sight, and put the front sight where you want to hit for close range defensive situations.

Hunting is, of course, different. This is where I have spent my life with the handgun. Accuracy expectations are different, recoil becomes a very real issue, and most of what they teach in defensive handgun schools goes right out the window.

Our practice targets are the ubiquitous clay bird. At 100 yards, from field positions, with open sighted big bore revolvers. Sight picture is critical. Trigger squeeze is critical - no "surprise" let-offs allowed. Consistency of grip is critical, because it affects the behavior of the revolver under recoil. But, most of all, as he points out in the video - controlling the "animal" inside you is most critical. That gets really tough with suitable hunting caliber revolvers. Hell, even as much as I shoot, I have to work back up to this if it's been awhile. It's a real psychological hurdle to step up to hunting loads in the .44 mag or .45 Colt after shooting .44 Specials or standard .45 Colt loads.

His single best point is that of overcoming that psychological hurdle, and one that applies across all shooting disciplines. He is spot-on on that one.

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Old 08-01-2019, 01:47 PM
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I thought this one was good. Too much focus around "slowly squeezing so it's a suprise"
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:13 PM
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I’m pretty accurate if I take it slow, like 1 shot every 3 seconds per range rules where I go...
Old 08-01-2019, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatbutt View Post
If you are flinching due to anticipation try having an RSO stack a snap-cap or two in your magazine. These will show you how much you are flinching and help cure you of it. They must e placed in the mag stack without you knowing where they are.
+1

I suppose that the way I learned to be en excellent pistol shot is to try and be "surprised" every time it goes off. I trained with a friend and a S&W 66. We would mix .38 rounds, .357 Mag rounds and snap caps in the cylinder. Once you drop the hammer on a snap cap and see the flinch, it's easy to dial it out. Breathe, squeeze, and let the break surprise you.

Last edited by ledhedsymbols; 08-01-2019 at 07:41 PM..
Old 08-01-2019, 07:39 PM
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I would suggest a 22 caliber semi auto or a revolver that has had a competent gun smith smooth the trigger to 2# or so with no creep. When I started I used a Ruger single six that shot 22LR and the trigger was great as someone had already worked it. I practiced one hand and two hand and both right and left hand until I could shoot well. I can shoot about the same with my S&W model 66 and TRR8 revolvers.
Old 08-01-2019, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb View Post
the real secret is the transition from a sidearm to hand-to-hand combat
Yeas. I've been working on my trench raiding clubs for awhile now.
They're mainly used to club baby seals. As that's how I get my gold.
However, I'm waiting for another great war to use them for fun...
Old 08-01-2019, 08:11 PM
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Not much of a handgun guy but did tournament shooting years ago with open bow archery, 177 air gun, 22LR, 12GA Skeet.

I agree with the vid that 90% of the battle is to overcome the inner animal. Basic shooting skills are pretty simple but the ability to go completely calm just as you squeeze the trigger or release the arrow separates the trophy winners from the also-rans. It is exactly the same in golf, baseball, hockey, auto racing, and any sport requiring precision movement on demand. The enemy of precision shooting is adrenaline, red mist, heavy distraction, and anticipation reflex.

These are the reasons I favor multiple layers of home protection and using a firearm as a last resort, only when you are calm, focused, and well positioned. Reaching for a weapon out of a groggy sleep as a 1st intruder response is a great way to get shot or kill a loved one. The animal works against us and we have little chance of putting a round on target until we can fully compose ourselves.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:38 PM
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I'd go one farther than snap caps. Make a few dummy rounds that look identical to your range ammo. That way you really never know when that dummy round is coming up in your mag. I did this when I was reloading SWCs and it made all the difference in the world.
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Old 08-02-2019, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb View Post
no matter how good the Marine guards at our embassies are (and they are top notch), when they get bum rushed by hundreds or thousands of they need to go to hand-to-hand

that is why that course is taught to them
It was a joke, hence the smiley. I know there are all sorts of situations where you have to transition to hand to hand. Malfunction is one where you could have all the skill and ammo in the world, but if something breaks, you better know an alternative way to fight.
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Old 08-02-2019, 07:27 AM
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no problemo

I also agree with a .22 as a starter gun or for plinking, some targets, etc. But I'm biased as all us kids got started on handguns with a .22 revolver - IIRC, it was about age 11
Old 08-02-2019, 12:21 PM
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A single action revolver is an excellent way in my book too.

We also have the kids use a Laserlyte insert with snap caps for trigger control. When the laser goes off you can see if it goes all squiggly. We also use the program Shootoff for indoor practice with the same setup in the spoon.

Dueling Tree with a double action revolver where you don't have to reload is murder on the trigger finger though.

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Old 08-02-2019, 12:51 PM
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I've got a laserlyte and iTarget. It would be easier if I used a camera to take video. I haven't practiced with it in forever.
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Old 08-02-2019, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masraum View Post
I thought this one was good. Too much focus around "slowly squeezing so it's a suprise"
Leatham is the real deal.
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:09 PM
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I suck at one handed bullseye shooting, but once i figured out my gun i'de snap from holster, double tap at 40 feet put one on the edge of the bull and the second one was smack center.
my natural aim with that gun was good , no jerk and second one corrected in.

The zen part for me is not being bored and not giving it time to think about my shot.

Same with Rifle shooting... My best result ever was at a Service rifle competition in Bisley uk on falling back 4 5 600 yds..
Was doing 2 rifles one scoped and one service rifle..they had forgotten allot time for me for the service rifle, and everybody was already moving back to 500 yds and waiting for me.
So I dropped to prone, slinged up and snapped off 15 shots and rushed to fall back not to delay anyone's shoot. same at 500 same, at 600 i was more relaxed cause no more falling back.. But 600 is always more fund because then wind plays and typically do well in wind and rain...No idea why

Got silver for that effort against the local Brits who shoot there all the time.
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Last edited by svandamme; 08-02-2019 at 11:20 PM..
Old 08-02-2019, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb View Post
no matter how good the Marine guards at our embassies are (and they are top notch), when they get bum rushed by hundreds or thousands of they need to go to hand-to-hand

that is why that course is taught to them


I'm pretty sure Marines are not taught hand to hand combat to deal with being overrun by hundreds or thousands overwhelming embassy's to the point where the M16's and Berettas no longer are able to handle things.


Because at that time, 1 vs many hand to hand combat ain't going to help em either and they are royally screwed anyway. At that point a grenade is probably going to be much more useful in hopefully not getting captured and publicly tortured or set on fire by the invaders

MCMAP goes way further then just teaching them to be overrun and throwing out punches till the end... it has to do with team building and Warrior Ethos. Confidence building Character building, PT
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:43 PM
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Marine guards at embassies are taught that, not all USMC.

I used to know a guy who ran the courses.
Old 08-03-2019, 01:00 PM
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what course?

all marines do hand to hand combat training.
is there a special bum rush hth techniques that they use to judo kick 100 talibums in one single swing?just for embassy marines?
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Old 08-03-2019, 01:15 PM
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transition from side arm to h-to-h
Old 08-03-2019, 01:17 PM
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drop gun!
judo kick?
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Old 08-03-2019, 01:19 PM
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the instructor is cross-trained in various Chinese martial arts

he's also a very good gunsmith BTW

Old 08-03-2019, 04:32 PM
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