To Bad we can't Boycot CANADA

[Targa Dude]

????? WTF? are you jabbering about? Broken toys??

Jorge (Targa Dude)
Infidels UNITE!

[bell]

this thread is turning ****** retarted........i'm going to start using the "ignore" button,
if canada tried to occupy kuwait they'd ask the US for help

and sweden.......
what are you guys gonna do.......throw birch leaves and herring at them?

this anti-american propaganda isn't going anywhere.........YOU deal with it.

[CamB]

{sigh}

I see a lot of "America is the biggest and the best".

I'm not going to bother agreeing or disagreeing - both points are open to debate. However, if the US wasn't the biggest and the best, would you take random insults lying down? Would you go meekly, knowing that, hey {pick another country and assume capabilities higher than US} could obliterate your country and I wouldn't even notice because it happened so quick.

No, you'd pick a fight as you are now, but without the back-up argument of "we are bigger and better" for when the argument gets feisty.

The inability of some people to understand (or admit to understanding) how other countries and cultures might be feeling is pretty amazing.

[Bill Douglas]

Shouldn't be so sensitive. Canada is a foreign country, just like California is

[island911]

Alright Cam, suppose you walked up behind some kid tagging your 911 with yellow paint. Here, you would be bigger (& I'll assume better ) than the little-snot. Are you saying you wouldn't grap the shethead by the ear and put the pressure on until he caved? . . . by your standard, people could say you would be picking a fight with the kid. . . .you should be above that, you know. you are stonger and better than that.

[CamB]

We are talking about Canada and Sweden mouthing off against the US. If I came across a kid mouthing off against NZ, my Porsche or pretty much anything, I would ignore them, and certainly wouldn't throw my weight around.

I'm on the record elsewhere as saying that I don't really have a problem in invading Iraq with proper evidence, and that the difference in my opinion is largely a difference based on my perception of the amount of evidence.

I'm doing a lot of objecting to the "You're for us or against us" mentality.

[island911]

So Cam, you're saying we're being heavy handed with Canada & Sweden? P'lease. . . just words.

What I see being posted is more along the lines of, the US is in no mood to take crap from anyone. . .even those trying to usurp the moral high ground, while hidding behind the skirt of the US ofA.

These people are the protesters in the US, Canada, little island countries. . .

Have a little respect, people. the leaders of the US & UK have made the decision to take on a mass murdering regime, at no small risk politically & militarly.
. . .decisions those little countries never have to even consider, BECAUSE they are little, non-threatening, impedent entities.

[CamB]

I can't argue with the last point Island - I do have respect for the decision. I still think its wrong though.

My view, and my countries, is that the action wasn't justified at the time the decision was made, and therefore we don't consider ourselves to be hiding behind the US' skirts...

I am as guilty of posting plenty of stuff against US involvement, but I have tried pretty hard to avoid name calling, which plenty of others see as a stock part of the discussion. If I felt strongly about my own government's stance I would post something to that effect.

There really is something specific to the US in all of this, which I can't put my finger on. The Australians have sent across troops, but I am not aware of any Australian negative sentiment to NZ.

[island911]

Do you consider yourselves to be hiding behind the AU skirt?

[Victor]

Originally posted by CamB

.................................................. ............ am not aware of any Australian negative sentiment to NZ.

Australia loves you.

[CamB]

Do you consider yourselves to be hiding behind the AU skirt?

This is physically impossible. A short trip to Australia (especially in the summer) would show that the concept of a skirt that hides anything is lost on Australian women. This is fine by me!

Island, I seriously believe we hide behind irrelevance. No one would bother to come all the way down here to threaten a country.

[944S Boyeee]

I American folks!

I think people here are reading me wrongly. My remarks, comments, opinions, etc are meant to help the American people. I love the American people......at least I used to. Anytime I was spreading "anti-US propoganda" it was aimed directly at the US Government - never the people.....but after reading most of the post here, I starting to realize perhaps the Government isn't totally at fault. When ever I offered up an idea or a thought, people are shooting it down, defending America (for no reason - I'm not trying to belittle America) and saying things like "haters hate us because we are successful" - does anyone really believe that? Come on.....that is the worst attitude that could be taken. "America" itself isn't thought of as being "better" than any other country out there.....get over yourselves. Different perhaps, better - no.

All I was trying to do is introduce ideas and questions so that perhaps some Americans would say, "huuuummmmm???" or "that's something to think about" - but the vibe I'm getting is that of programmed robots who will only listen to certain ideas. I have had a stance on this war from day -100, yet I have changed that view many times due to suggestions, facts, opinions, etc. I guess I have an open mind - which is what I think would be a good thing for Americans to have right now - and doing that isn't going to make you "un-patriotic" or "a hippy". Questioning the actions of Government is one of the freedoms that makes America who they are. I read somewhere that the true duty of a patriot is to never settle for the first explaination and to question authority.

Seeing as most people here think I'm an idiot....here are a few quote from some guys who are smarter than me.

"Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece."
--Ralph Charell

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."
--Albert Einstein

That being said, I will say something nice about the American people - they are not spineless.

And when I say "American people", I mean the representation that exists on this board. Hopefully, it's not a microcosim of the larger group.....hopefully.

944S Boyeee

[island911]

So Boyee, your contention is, that if an action is popular, then those going along with it are stupid. . .and the action itself is questionable. (?)

[bell]

Originally posted by 944S Boyeee
I American folks!

I think people here are reading me wrongly. My remarks, comments, opinions, etc are meant to help the American people. I love the American people......at least I used to. Anytime I was spreading "anti-US propoganda" it was aimed directly at the US Government - never the people.....but after reading most of the post here, I starting to realize perhaps the Government isn't totally at fault. 944S Boyeee

the problem I have with your statements is that they do come across as "propoganda", not as much as some of the others but still the same.
you could be a little more constructive as how you get your point across, this whole thing is a touchy subject and if you don't type with care it will be attacked by those of us who believe wholeheartedly in our country.
and no one is at fault except except for murdering regimes and the U.N........this could have been avoided if the UN would have been realistic with the threat we're currently taking care of.
now the UN wants to take part in the reconstruction of iraq......they had their shot and in my opinion they blew it.

one thing i will say about americans is we will defend our country any way we can......be it with machine guns, M1A1's or keyboards.
we got where we are by believing in true freedom and taking liberties........we are american........the liberty people.
we will listen to all opinions but chances are we've heard it all before........

the earth is our chess board..............

[stealthn]

Jorge,

Be glad I'm so far away! Some of your previous posts almost had some intelligence to them, now I know you are just a weak little tool using your keyboard to feel important.

I can't beleive the article about the kids and it makes me sick, but you should know better than anyone you don't use one incident of idiots to define a country. Was it not an American that bombed and government building?, Didn't the US army test LSD and anthrax on it's own and unsuspecting Americans? (does this mean all Americans hate America, or the government hates it's people?)

"Here in the US we teach our children respect, We instill our children with morals" -- really is this why in the US the biggest killer of children under 12 is guns?

"Well Basically it shows what type of upbringing you Canadians instill into your Children" -- Jeffrey Dalhmer, Ted Bundy, Gacy, were all children once - American ones - is this what you instill?

"In sports Our Kids have always been taught true sportsmanship." -- Yes thanks to the wonderful people like Tonya Hardning, Pete Rose, Daryl Strawberry, and other "athletes" that lead by example.

Let's face facts you may think the US is the greatest country in the World, but I can go anywhere in the world and get accepted for being a Canadian, whereas you would have to watch your back everywhere. The rest of the world does not dislike the US for what they stand for or what they have, they dislike it for the eliteist, narrowminded attitude of people like YOU.

[beepbeep]

Haleluja or something!

[expat]

Originally posted by bell

we will listen to all opinions but chances are we've heard it all before........

the earth is our chess board..............

I've been trying real hard to resisit getting involved here but....

Bell - firstly, mate...I respect you for the Porsche man you are. You have helped me in the past and I appreciate your giving in this regard. I am NOT anti-American or name calling you but...

Your comments above are exactly what I think rubs other nationalities the wrong way....'we've heard it all before...' is arrogance and ignorance that cannot be argued. Anyone who truely holds this belief cannot be involved in an open discussion because their minds are closed......you might be listening but are you hearing......

Your comment '....the earth is our chess board...' is likewise that belief that every other country (nationality) is merely your toy to played until won. In chess you manipulate the pieces (countries) until you have won, disregard an dispose the opposition, for every move they make, you counter. (Remember I quoting you, and your thoughts, not what I think America or Americans do necessarily)

Life should not be a giant chess game IMO...its about negotiation and respect for other points of view.

Now don't get me wrong...I do believe the war was the only outcome, because the American Govt. gave all they could to Sadam in negotiation but wholelistically (sp) I think many Americans do give off this attitude of its our world, we know it all, been there done that etc.... And again don't get me wrong, I tend to admire that in a way (I wish Australians were more confident of their own abilities, remember we knock ourselves more than anyone else!) but I think you have to achnowledge where the frustration comes from in other countries towards Americans when they present themselves so outrightly.

I guess the best way I can liken this is to 'that' person at work...you know the one that gets on everyones nerves but seems to be vital to the system anyway and without 'that' person, maybe things wouldn't get done. I suspect this is what America is..tolerated for its brashness (maybe even loved at times) but nevertheless incredibly frustrating......

Hating America or Americans is not on most peoples agendas I believe.

I hope I have put this into some perspective without shutting down our ability to continue to talk on the Technical Board.

Cheers
Mark

[bell]

Originally posted by stealthn

Let's face facts you may think the US is the greatest country in the World, but I can go anywhere in the world and get accepted for being a Canadian, whereas you would have to watch your back everywhere. The rest of the world does not dislike the US for what they stand for or what they have, they dislike it for the eliteist, narrowminded attitude of people like YOU.

i would rather watch my back than be confused for a canadien.
as far as being narrowminded........so be it, THAT is only YOUR opinion. there is a reason the entire world asks for our help..........

[bell]

Originally posted by expathk
I've been trying real hard to resisit getting involved here but....

Bell - firstly, mate...I respect you for the Porsche man you are. You have helped me in the past and I appreciate your giving in this regard. I am NOT anti-American or name calling you but...

Your comments above are exactly what I think rubs other nationalities the wrong way....'we've heard it all before...' is arrogance and ignorance that cannot be argued. Anyone who truely holds this belief cannot be involved in an open discussion because their minds are closed......you might be listening but are you hearing......

Your comment '....the earth is our chess board...' is likewise that belief that every other country (nationality) is merely your toy to played until won. In chess you manipulate the pieces (countries) until you have won, disregard an dispose the opposition, for every move they make, you counter. (Remember I quoting you, and your thoughts, not what I think America or Americans do necessarily)

Cheers
Mark

if anyone took that the wrong way then i wasn't clear, by "our" i meant the free world, not just the US.

i'm an american and proud of it, my opinions are my own as an american, i personally am a peacefull man but will stand up when i have to. i have family and freinds in iraq as i type this defending the freedom which makes life as most of us know it possible.
i think about my opinions before i state them and i hold true to them. the US is about freedom and equal rights, there are many sides to each opinion but in the end it's to make the world a better safer place. i don't agree with all of our politicians but i stand behind their decisions as an american.
iraq is being handled the way which has been deemed required to rid the world of one of it's threats.

i too respect everyones opinions until it's time to not respect them (this thread has brought that out in me).
the porsche community is something i hold dear and will also defend should it ever arise.

the chess board comment was built upon a previous post that irritated me.

the "we've heard it all before" was dirrected to the posters who continue to blastphamise the US.

and pete rose should be allowed back into baseball.......it's pete rose for gods sake.

i help anyone who needs it as long as it's appreciated. a simple thank you goes a long way with me.

[CamB]

there is a reason the entire world asks for our help

But that is the point. The US's "helpfulness" is diluted when it becomes apparent that the "help" will be given whether the world wants it or not.

I remind you that the free world asked the US to hold its "help" in check in this instance. But the US still "helped".

In fact, the world has never known what it is like to do without the US's help in recent memory. For all you and I know, the world might just get on fine. The US never gives that opportunity, as it always protects its own interests first. When that "helps" the world, I have to endure you referring to the US as "saving everyones ass". If there were no other asses to save, the US would still do it. So I just can't accept any argument that the US is saving asses altruistically (which is what you imply).