Woodworking and carpentry thread

[Crowbob]

I have carpentry questions. Construction-type carpentry.

My curved, draped-roof azumaya is gonna need decking for the roof. Because the rafters are curved and draped, the roof decking must be flexible and accommodate a concave curve of 5-6” over a span of 12’ or so in two directions. As such, it’s not a severe deflection but rigid plywood won’t work. What will? OSB, thin plywood, planking? Also, because of matters beyond my control, the roofing on top of the decking (i.e., shingles, tiles, shakes, or whatever) may not happen for a year or three, so I’m thinking pressure treated or marine plywood would certainly work.

Any insights or thoughts?

[Zeke]

You can buy plywood designed to flex. https://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/plywood/radius-bending-plywood

[look 171]

It seems like a gentle bend, nothing radical. Like Milt said, bending poplar is normally what people use but to use it on the exterior and it wouldn't get covered is asking to be done all over again with one season.

The other way is to kerf the face or 1x6 and get it to bend to the contour of the roof. Still, it needs to be covered from the element . An Azumaya is some type of Japanese temple like roof typical of Asian temples?

[rwest]

What about three layers of 1/4” marine plywood and stager the joints? Could you at least cover it with roofing paper for some protection before the shingles get put on?

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by look 171

It seems like a gentle bend, nothing radical. Like Milt said, bending poplar is normally what people use but to use it on the exterior and it wouldn't get covered is asking to be done all over again with one season.

The other way is to kerf the face or 1x6 and get it to bend to the contour of the roof. Still, it needs to be covered from the element . An Azumaya is some type of Japanese temple like roof typical of Asian temples?

‘Azumaya’ is roughly Japanese for ‘viewing pavilion’ which is basically a gazebo with curved roof and no siding. The kerfed 1-by sounds like a good plan. If I used pressure treated wood it probably wouldn’t need to be covered right away. At least for one season maybe even a year or two, I would think.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by rwest

What about three layers of 1/4” marine plywood and stager the joints? Could you at least cover it with roofing paper for some protection before the shingles get put on?

I’ve considered this. I’m wondering if taping the edges and covering the joints with ice/snow shield membrane would prevent the edges from swelling.

Probably the best thing would be to install the roof and shingles or whatever all at once. The rest of the structure is pressure-treated so it can sit exposed until I get the roof materials. 1/4” plywood was my first thought.

[gregpark]

How about a Palapa roof? Palm fronds woven together like they do in Mexico. They seem to last forever and are certainly attractive. No smoking please ha ha

[look 171]

Can 1x pressured treated be had unless you get a batch made? I wouldn't waste my time with the trouble or use pressure treated up there.

How wide at the rafter spaced? Not the entire roof is curves, just the tip or edge? What do you see when you look up from the ground under the roof? Traditionally the underside of the roof or decking, which is normally a bunch of 1x or similar materials is seen, the roofs I saw in China was like it when I looked so there's maybe some influences between the two countries from 500 years back. Use bending plywood and build up to desire thickness or kerf the 1X. If the concern is appearance from the underside ( that would be my concern) finish it off with some cedar, oiled or painted, to achieve the traditional look. What's the roofing materials? Traditional Japanese tile with fancy curves? It wounds like a fun project, with plenty of problem solving.

have a pic, I like to see this.

[gregpark]

Yes, need a pic of the framing

[Crowbob]

Unfinished. 18” OC rafters curved and draped (draped means the center rafters are lower than the hip rafters will be…

[look 171]

TnG 2x cedar. Cut to fit each piece center to rafter.

[gregpark]

I'd do 1x 2 cedar strips (non T&G) horizontally, full length, and spaced a half inch. Good for any type of roofing you want and will look cool from below

[Zeke]

@gregpark, the tea house shown above had rdw spaced sheathing and we took pains to not have any nail penetration from the shingles above. It DID look cool. Using multiples of the length of the shingles out nails were always in the right place. We just had to measure each shingle where we wee nailing to use the right length nail. That went a little slow. But, the small structure was pretty expensive to build so the effort was necessary. All done T&M. All the deck boards were blind screwed and the the frame was timber frame pegged mortise and tenon.

[gregpark]

^ That was a lot of thoughtful work. The framing alone was slow and painful I'm sure but the end result makes a project like that worth it. T&M is the only way I'd take on a job like that too. Way too easy to underestimate the time on unconventional construction

[look 171]

I took a job couple years ago for a bike riding buddy on building a Craftsman fence and gates to his property. The giant gate up front will be fun and interesting to engineer along with others around the property. All mortise and tenant with square pegs. You bet your ass it will have SS screws and bolts but it will never show. Automatic gates will have a metal skeleton wrapped with lumber. It will be thick with pieces glued together to create the width needed then band saw out. Sadly, I haven't had time to start it yet. Been really busy with other projects and he know me and our work very well, so he's been waiting. My local lumber yard will love me because we will order a ton of cedar, Custom milling of T n G for the panels on the fence. It will be milled to 6/4, 2.5" in width for strength sitting inside a frame every 6' up the back hillside of the property.

It seems we are involved in none standard jobs like this very often. We just bid it out as such and pad it due to unknown issues especially the engineering aspect of it and sometimes design in the details. I have been fired by his architect twice on the remodel of his home. This will make it the third time I am sure because I will call out his BS design or lack of it. My job is to protect my friend or the home owner that's paying the bill not some dumb lazy, chip on their shoulder architects.

Jobs like your Azumaya are really fun and challenging to do. Show us some pics when you are done with it

[Zeke]

@look171, I had a gate to build for a Lido Island home and I knew the weather would kill it in no time. The architect on the job was one of these cats that lives in VT and had an office in a old, old, converted barn. He thought he was the cat's ass.

This was a courtyard gate with a peek-a-boo iron insert just to make the thing tougher to build. His plan called for 2-1/4 custom T&G lumber through bolted with all thread. I balked at that and started with a 3/4" sheet of marine plywood, must have been somewhere around 9 layers of laminated hardwood. On top of that I used clear all heart rdw both sides. I sized the ply small so I could run a filler all around the edges so the ply edge would not show.

Having a stiff membrane as the core of that gate meant that the strap hinge bolts would be going through a sleeve pressed into the marine ply and proud enough so that the tightened bolts could not crush the surface boards. That gate did not sag.

I hang all gate slightly out of plumb with the hinge side leaning towards the jamb. IOW, the margin on the hinge side is narrower at the top. It never fails that the gate sags just enough after a few weather cycles to reach a perfect margin. They just all do that so why hang it plumb knowing you will be back in 2 weeks adjusting it.

Lots of pushback when owners see a slightly crooked gate at first. When it settles they get to eat their nit-picking crow. It's why I've learned to hate people. They can't stand not being able to be critical as if they could even drive a stake for a newly planted tree.

It really is not fun being an intelligent contractor. No one expects it and can't stand it when they get one.

[gregpark]

Ha ha, my joke with architects is "do you know the difference between God and an architect?"
Answer: God knows he's not an architect

I was on a high end job and a guy was capping a 20' swinging metal gate with Ipe using no fasteners. Gorilla glue only! He wetted both surfaces before glueing and had 40 clamps on a 6"x20' stick. Damned if it didn't work! That's some strong stuff

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by gregpark

...That's some strong stuff

The Gorilla Glue's pretty tough also.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I hang all gate slightly out of plumb with the hinge side leaning towards the jamb. IOW, the margin on the hinge side is narrower at the top. It never fails that the gate sags just enough after a few weather cycles to reach a perfect margin. They just all do that so why hang it plumb knowing you will be back in 2 weeks adjusting it.

I'm making a mental note of that!

It really is not fun being an intelligent contractor. No one expects it and can't stand it when they get one.

Intelligent contractors are what we pray for and seldom get which is why I do so much on my own.

[Zeke]

Well Steve, your incomplete quoting me seems to be a bit out of context, but I'm good. The point is that few people are left that will trust a contractor to do them right and leave them to it. The worst are the skeptics that don't know what they are talking about. Ask Jeff, he knows for sure. We have several other contractors here. I think Rocket builds new homes.

Speaking of new homes, I once subbed quite a bit for a spec custom home builder. Early in his career he designed and built a beautiful home and sold it before construction was finished. Now that it was bought the new owner got involved and turned the whole thing into a nightmare.

That contractor vowed to never sell an unfinished home and if he built a house under contract it was strictly T&M. I mean they would set a budget based on the approved plans and he could and would stick to the budget until the first change order. Then all agreements as to price went out the window. Which happened every time.