What should consequences be for those that decline the vax?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by javadog

Well, take this one demographic. Of the people that were vaccinated that race was known, blacks comprise about 10%.

Pretty good considering they represent only ~13.5% of the total population.

GenZ, least likely to qualify for vaccination at all is 35% of that.

Looks like blacks are well represented among the vaccinated. Possibly even better than their population as a percentage of total population eligible for vaccination would lead one to believe.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/RHI225219#RHI225219

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

So where are the numbers concerning atheists? I imagine they are much more likely to be in favor of the vaccine.

What is really shocking is that the mortality rate in America is 100%! Everyone dies eventually. As such, some folks are more motivated to stay alive as long as possible.

I heard this argument last year and it is a stupid argument.

Last summer during the Covid height, I attended an outdoor retirement event. I was wearing a mask. The event was lightly attended and there was allot of anxiety over mask/no mask, hoax/no hoax, real/exaggerated, political/non political, I was talking to a guy I knew, mid to late 50s who thought the entire Covid thing was a joke was not taking anything seriously. It's just like the flu. And then he said " no big deal, the average age of male lives is 77 and that's ok with me". This whole thing is overblown.

I responded, " well according to you and statistics, I don't have allot of time left on the planet. I'm 70 years old. If I could get an extra day by being careful, observing stop lights, speed limits, social distancing and wearing a mask, etc just to see my love ones and grandchildren - why wouldn't I do it?"

He was speechless.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

So where are the numbers concerning atheists? I imagine they are much more likely to be in favor of the vaccine.

What is really shocking is that the mortality rate in America is 100%! Everyone dies eventually. As such, some folks are more motivated to stay alive as long as possible.

I believe they are categorized as “Religously unafilliated” which would make sense.

[Racerbvd]

Ok, I got my shot today.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by jcommin

I heard this argument last year and it is a stupid argument.

Last summer during the Covid height, I attended an outdoor retirement event. I was wearing a mask. The event was lightly attended and there was allot of anxiety over mask/no mask, hoax/no hoax, real/exaggerated, political/non political, I was talking to a guy I knew, mid to late 50s who thought the entire Covid thing was a joke was not taking anything seriously. It's just like the flu. And then he said " no big deal, the average age of male lives is 77 and that's ok with me". This whole thing is overblown.

I responded, " well according to you and statistics, I don't have allot of time left on the planet. I'm 70 years old. If I could get an extra day by being careful, observing stop lights, speed limits, social distancing and wearing a mask, etc just to see my love ones and grandchildren - why wouldn't I do it?"

He was speechless.

I am pretty sure I would rather live as I see fit and take some tiny, reasonable risk in the time I have left than wrap myself in bubble wrap and wear a diaper over my face. IMHO, life is too short to waste being afraid...but, each to their own.

Turns out is really is "just like the flu"...so much that the PCR test cannot differentiate between the two (they finally admitted that)...and people were foolish enough to believe that that no one died of the flu last year (for the first time ever). Half the COVID cases were likely the flu.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I am pretty sure I would rather live as I see fit and take some tiny, reasonable risk in the time I have left than wrap myself in bubble wrap and wear a diaper over my face. IMHO, life is too short to waste being afraid...but, each to their own.

Turns out is really is "just like the flu"...so much that the PCR test cannot differentiate between the two (they finally admitted that)...and people were foolish enough to believe that that no one died of the flu last year (for the first time ever). Half the COVID cases were likely the flu.

Why do you continue with the misinformation that PCR cannot differentiate between covid and the flu. A complete fabrication.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Why do you continue with the misinformation that PCR cannot differentiate between covid and the flu. A complete fabrication.

Because he likes to make **** up.

Half the COVID cases were likely flu?

LOL

Note he doesn’t really specify infections or deaths but we are going to go with deaths as that number makes the idea he meant infections even more ridiculous.

600,000 deaths so 300,000 from the flu?

That would make it the worst flu season by a multiple of three compared to the two worst since the Spanish Flu.

100 years of mortality data make the idea laughable.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Why do you continue with the misinformation that PCR cannot differentiate between covid and the flu. A complete fabrication.

The PCR did not differentiate between Flu deaths and COVID deaths. It did not recognize the flu. It only recognized SARS-CoV-2. If a person had flu/COVID symptoms and there is both flu and SARS-CoV-2, it would indicate SARS-CoV-2 and not flu. If the person died from the Flu, they would be counted as dying from COVID.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Because he likes to make **** up.

Half the COVID cases were likely flu?

LOL

Note he doesn’t really specify infections or deaths but we are going to go with deaths as that number makes the idea he meant infections even more ridiculous.

600,000 deaths so 300,000 from the flu?

That would make it the worst flu season by a multiple of three compared to the two worst since the Spanish Flu.

100 years of mortality data make the idea laughable.

There were not 600,000 deaths from COVID, there were deaths of 600,000 people diagnosed as having COVID...It did not necessarily kill them...and that was total deaths reported that involved COVID, not per year. There were only around 300K per year...

I seem to recall that about 100,000 Americans died in 1967 from the Flu and about 116,000 in 1957...and blue state Governors/Mayors did not lock up the infected in nursing homes with old vulnerable folks then...and our population is much greater now.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by fintstone

There were not 600,000 deaths from COVID, there were deaths of 600,000 people diagnosed as having COVID...It did not necessarily kill them...and that was total deaths reported that involved COVID, not per year. There were only around 300K per year...

I seem to recall that about 100,000 Americans died in 1967 from the Flu and about 116,000 in 1957...and blue state Governors/Mayors did not lock up the infected in nursing homes with old vulnerable folks then...and our population is much greater now.

There were in excess of 600,000 more mortalities than were predicted based on year to year historical data.

If that number were 6,000 it would not have raised an eyebrow.

60,000, might pique some curious interest but not all that alarming.

300,000, yeah that's gonna set off alarm bells.

600,000, coinciding with a global pandemic.

Care to explain where they came from?

In case you are having trouble grasping just how abnormal that number is here's a nice picture for ya.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

There were in excess of 600,000 more mortalities than were predicted based on year to year historical data.

If that number were 6,000 it would not have raised an eyebrow.

60,000, might pique some curious interest but not all that alarming.

300,000, yeah that's gonna set off alarm bells.

600,000, coinciding with a global pandemic.

Care to explain where they came from?

In case you are having trouble grasping just how abnormal that number is here's a nice picture for ya.

Can you? I understand murders, suicides, crime, shootings, inflation, unemployment...almost everything is up (except patriotism and common sense). Maybe you should ask the CDC who reported that only about 6% of those reported as dying of COVID died from COVID alone (the rest had comorbidities). My Mom died alone because she could not get treatment for cancer and no one could visit (people scared of COVID...but not too scared to have pizza and grocery delivery to their home by the unvaccinated). Many others were too scared to get proper medical treatment. Assuming a massive increase in deaths caused by COVID that were not been attributed to COVID when people were looking for COVID under every rock and hospitals were paid $36K more for those that died of COVID seems unlikely. Especially when COVID deaths did not require any testing for proof. Modelling for "excess deaths" is no better than the modelling that told us that many millions would die of COVID in the U.S...or that no vaccine would be available for many years. Reminds me of the nonsense posted here promising that much of the US would be under water in 10 years...15 years ago. The truth is indeed inconvenient...and each time these predictions are proved wrong, true believers just move the goalposts.

[Sooner or later]

The following is the JAMA breakdown.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

Cause-of-death data are based on the underlying cause of death, which is the disease or condition responsible for initiating the chain of events leading to death. Mortality statistics presented here are provisional, based on currently available death certificate data from the states to the NCHS as of March 21, 2021. Final mortality data will be available approximately 11 months after the end of the data year.

The provisional number of deaths occurring in the US among US residents in 2020 was 3 358 814, an increase of 503 976 (17.7%) from 2 854 838 in 2019 (Table).

Most of the increase in deaths from 2019 to 2020 was directly attributed to COVID-19. However, increases were also noted for several other leading causes of death. These increases may indicate, to some extent, underreporting of COVID-19, ie, limited testing in the beginning of the pandemic may have resulted in underestimation of COVID-19 mortality. Increases in other leading causes, especially heart disease, Alzheimer disease, and diabetes, may also reflect disruptions in health care that hampered early detection and disease management. Increases in unintentional injury deaths in 2020 were largely driven by drug overdose deaths

Heart disease deaths increased by 4.8%, the largest increase in heart disease deaths since 2012. Increases in deaths also occurred for unintentional injury (11.1%), Alzheimer disease (9.8%), and diabetes (15.4%). Influenza and pneumonia deaths in 2020 increased by 7.5%, although the number of deaths was lower in 2020 than in 2017 and 2018. From 2019 to 2020, deaths due to chronic lower respiratory disease declined by 3.4% and suicide deaths declined by 5.6%

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

The following is the JAMA breakdown.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

Cause-of-death data are based on the underlying cause of death, which is the disease or condition responsible for initiating the chain of events leading to death. Mortality statistics presented here are provisional, based on currently available death certificate data from the states to the NCHS as of March 21, 2021. Final mortality data will be available approximately 11 months after the end of the data year.

The provisional number of deaths occurring in the US among US residents in 2020 was 3 358 814, an increase of 503 976 (17.7%) from 2 854 838 in 2019 (Table).

Most of the increase in deaths from 2019 to 2020 was directly attributed to COVID-19. However, increases were also noted for several other leading causes of death. These increases may indicate, to some extent, underreporting of COVID-19, ie, limited testing in the beginning of the pandemic may have resulted in underestimation of COVID-19 mortality. Increases in other leading causes, especially heart disease, Alzheimer disease, and diabetes, may also reflect disruptions in health care that hampered early detection and disease management. Increases in unintentional injury deaths in 2020 were largely driven by drug overdose deaths

Heart disease deaths increased by 4.8%, the largest increase in heart disease deaths since 2012. Increases in deaths also occurred for unintentional injury (11.1%), Alzheimer disease (9.8%), and diabetes (15.4%). Influenza and pneumonia deaths in 2020 increased by 7.5%, although the number of deaths was lower in 2020 than in 2017 and 2018. From 2019 to 2020, deaths due to chronic lower respiratory disease declined by 3.4% and suicide deaths declined by 5.6%

It is interesting how CDC COVID deaths, unlike any others, always includes "presumed deaths"..."COVID-19 deaths are identified using a new ICD–10 code. When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death – or when it is listed as a “probable” or “presumed” cause — the death is coded as U07.1. This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation." It is also interesting how many cases of pneumonia were coded as COVID deaths (where laboratory confirmation was not required). It would be interesting to see how many patients came the hospital with another ailment and died (and the death was attributed to COVID). Note the differences between the JAM numbers and the CDC numbers (reported).


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

[Sooner or later]

Pneumonia can be a result of covid. It is called chain of events.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e2.htm

Concerns have been raised that some deaths are being improperly attributed to COVID-19 (2). Analysis of International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) diagnoses on official death certificates might provide an expedient and efficient method to demonstrate whether reported COVID-19 deaths are being overestimated.

Among death certificates from calendar year 2020 listing COVID-19 and at least one other co-occurring diagnosis, the documentation is consistent with these deaths being attributable to COVID-19. Specifically, in 97% of 357,133 death certificates with COVID-19 and at least one other diagnosis, the documented chain-of-event and significant contributing conditions were consistent with those reported in clinical and epidemiologic studies to occur among patients with severe COVID-19–associated outcomes (5,9). Only 5.5% of death certificates had COVID-19 without any other conditions listed. Attributability of death to COVID-19 could not be evaluated for these death certificates and represents an opportunity for improvement in documentation.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Pneumonia can be a result of covid. It is called chain of events.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e2.htm

Concerns have been raised that some deaths are being improperly attributed to COVID-19 (2). Analysis of International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) diagnoses on official death certificates might provide an expedient and efficient method to demonstrate whether reported COVID-19 deaths are being overestimated.

Among death certificates from calendar year 2020 listing COVID-19 and at least one other co-occurring diagnosis, the documentation is consistent with these deaths being attributable to COVID-19. Specifically, in 97% of 357,133 death certificates with COVID-19 and at least one other diagnosis, the documented chain-of-event and significant contributing conditions were consistent with those reported in clinical and epidemiologic studies to occur among patients with severe COVID-19–associated outcomes (5,9). Only 5.5% of death certificates had COVID-19 without any other conditions listed. Attributability of death to COVID-19 could not be evaluated for these death certificates and represents an opportunity for improvement in documentation.

Pneumonia is called an infection of the lungs and may be caused by bacteria, viruses, or fungi. Although it could be caused by COIVID, Pneumonia can also be the result of a cold, allergy, influenza, HIV/AIDS, etc.. If hospitalized for pneumonia (in a hospital where COVID is present/not contained), one could very easy die of pneumonia and have asymptomatic COVID (or not have COVID at al)l yet still have it listed as cause of death (as noted by the CDC that testing for COVID was not required to attribute death to COVID in 2020)...just as Americans (and our ancestors) were hospitalized and died of pneumonia long before the Chinese created and released/spread COVID.

[techweenie]

My philosophy: your establishment, your rules. I can choose to patronize or not.

Delta variant, which results in 1000 times more virus in breathing passages, is not the only or final variant. Lambda is coming in from South America and many of the older variants, beta and gamma, are troublesome in their own ways.

The longer the virus runs wild in the population, the greater the risk of a deadlier strain.

Oh, and death isn't the only reason to protect yourself. There's 'long Covid,' which we are learning more about every day.

[island911]

Originally Posted by techweenie

My philosophy: your establishment, your rules. I can choose to patronize or not.

Delta variant, which results in 1000 times more virus in breathing passages, is not the only or final variant. Lambda is coming in from South America and many of the older variants, beta and gamma, are troublesome in their own ways.

The longer the virus runs wild in the population, the greater the risk of a deadlier strain.

Oh, and death isn't the only reason to protect yourself. There's 'long Covid,' which we are learning more about every day.

You sound very happy with all the ways you can spread fear.

"Long Covid"... hey, what about "Long Vaccine"? Should we imagine all the horrible after effects of the vaccine? The vascular damage... Spike proteins...

Everyone is pushing imagined fears. :-/

THe biggest CV fear that I have stems from the yahoos so Pollyanna paranoid that they want to punish those who do not subscribe to their Pollyanna paranoid fear narrative. To wit, NYC, and their demanding medical records to exist in the chity.

[island911]

On variants /mutations; I heard a talking-head demand that this virus is SMART! and will find a way to become more deadly.

Is that what you believe techwe? ...that the virus is SMART! and is calculating ways to become more deadly?

[Ayles]

Those who refuse vaccines should be forced into reading all 64000 island comments and the 62k that belong to funnystone.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by island911

On variants /mutations; I heard a talking-head demand that this virus is SMART! and will find a way to become more deadly.

Is that what you believe techwe? ...that the virus is SMART! and is calculating ways to become more deadly?

Still arguing with the voices in your own head, eh, Island.

Sad.