Vaccines are moving the needle...

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by john70t

And you believe that?

To a point. I said it was not as clear cut as the other two items you mentioned. No doubt flu cases declined significantly last year. And it wasn't because of a "faulty " test.

[john70t]

Everything that works so well for the flu virus doesn't work with Covid? um okay. But isn't Covid classified as a type of flu?

How can two similar diseases create such opposing results when the exact same public reduction methodologies are applied?

[javadog]

Tell us, why was there such a precipitous drop in the flu cases last year?

If it was because of all of the precautions (masks!) we were taking for Covid, why did the Covid cases explode during the same time frame as the flu season?

Oh, and yes, I know that Covid is potentially more easily transmitted, so feel free to ignore the absolute numbers and just concentrate on the trend.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by john70t

Everything that works so well for the flu virus doesn't work with Covid? um okay. But isn't Covid classified as a type of flu?

How can two similar diseases create such opposing results when the exact same reduction methods are applied?

I explained it. The ease of spread. Every flu case spreads to about 2 others. Vaccines lower that to about 1.5 , Alpha covid at 3. Delta at 5. That makes a tremendous difference in how fast they spread.

Flu 1 case to 2. 2 to 4. 4 to 8. 8 to 16. 16 to 32
Alpah 1 to 3. 3 to 9. 9 to 27. 27 to 81. 91 to 243
Delta 1 to 5. 5 to 25. 25 to 125. 125 to 625. 625 to 3125.

To stop that dramatic increase in spread the R0 needs to below an R1.

The flu vaccine drops it to an R1.5 (or there about). All of the social distancing and masking/hygiene, lower air travel, remote learning schools, limited large gatherings combined drops it another 1/3. At or below an R1. It never gets a foothold.

When Alpha was at an R3 and no vaccine the same 1/3 reduction drops it to an R2. It continued to spread exponentially. When the vaccines took hold we could see the dramatic drop in new cases (past infection and vaccine)

Highly transmittable Delta at R5 with a less effective vaccine against the variant and opening economies resulted in a fast growth in cases.

It is simply far more easily spread covid vs the flu (32/243/3125) and less face to face contact that decimated the flu's ability to spread that only slowed covid, though not enough to stop it in it's tracks like the less infective flu.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

And it wasn't because of a "faulty " test.

Don't take my tinfoil wearing word for the PRC being faulty.
Take it from the Nobel Prize winning inventor of the test, and potentially foremost political critic of Fauci.
(who um conveniently died)

https://fcpp.org/2021/02/27/pcr-test-is-flimsy-say-inventor-and-courts/
Mullis won the 1993 Nobel Prize in chemistry for his invention of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test. He died August 7, 2019, months before it would be used to diagnose SARS-CoV-2. Regardless, his weighty words remain.

“The PCR, if you do it well, you can find almost anything in anybody,” Mullis once said in a public address. “If you can amplify one single molecule up to something you can really measure, which is something you can do.…So that could be thought of as a misuse of it.

“These guys like Fauci get up and start talking and he doesn’t know anything really about anything and I would say that to his face. Nothing,” Mullis said. “The man thinks you can take a blood sample and stick it in an electron microscope and if it’s got a virus in there, you’ll know it. He doesn’t understand electron microscopy and he doesn’t understand medicine and he should not be in a position like he’s in. Most of those guys up there on the top are just total administrative people and they don’t know anything about the body.

“Those guys have got an agenda which is not what we would like them to have, being that we pay for them to take care of our health in some way. They have a personal kind of agenda. They make up their own rules as they go; they change them when they want to. And they (are smug)—like Tony Fauci does not mind going on television in front of the people who pay his salary and lie directly into the camera.”

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Welcome to the OT forum, David. How do you like your nuts? Fresh, toasted, or extra spicy?

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Story of my life for the last few weeks. You learn fast, Young Jedi.

LOL, thanks, I needed the laugh.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by island911

" inflated sense of self-worth "

oye, the ad hominem...

Folding like Ikea furniture.

You add nothing. Just yapping.

[hbueno]

Originally Posted by island911

You do know that you are complaining about "Sour Grapes" right?

You go into a discussion, can't convince, so you call the others pigs. - classy.

Another thjng that doesn't impress me is false outrage. Nice try though.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by David Inc.

Some wild sources there dude, and the one legitimate one counters what you're claiming with science.

I don't know why I'm the world I'm engaging here. Conspiracy nuts aren't salvageable through internet connections.

If this is a bit bewildering, definitely stay out of their snowflake globe next door.

[Ayles]

Originally Posted by pavulon

If this is a bit bewildering, definitely stay out of their snowflake globe next door.

Its more of a circle jerk than a snow globe.

[john70t]

And this thread devolves to kindergarten insult level...the only thing missing is German social conditions 80 years ago.

oh yeah, "kindergarten" is a White Supremacist word!
Time to cancel it.

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by Ayles

Its more of a circle jerk than a snow globe.

Where do you think the snow in the globe is coming from…. 🤷🏻*♂️

[pmax]

Originally Posted by David Inc.

What is this based on? Even anecdotally, which is always a poor way to look at things, I know of no-one directly or indirectly who has had complications from the vaccine. On the other hand two people I know of directly and six people indirectly (second connection) that have died of Covid.
...

Did they follow the "standard of care" of staying at home until they can't breath ?



Best treatment.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by upsscott

You add nothing. Just yapping.

Pet cats, time to mask them up.

Dogs are fine ... for now.

[Steve Carlton]

What's he chewing? An invermectin cookie?

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

I explained it. The ease of spread. Every flu case spreads to about 2 others. Vaccines lower that to about 1.5 , Alpha covid at 3. Delta at 5. That makes a tremendous difference in how fast they spread.

Flu 1 case to 2. 2 to 4. 4 to 8. 8 to 16. 16 to 32
Alpah 1 to 3. 3 to 9. 9 to 27. 27 to 81. 91 to 243
Delta 1 to 5. 5 to 25. 25 to 125. 125 to 625. 625 to 3125.

To stop that dramatic increase in spread the R0 needs to below an R1.

The flu vaccine drops it to an R1.5 (or there about). All of the social distancing and masking/hygiene, lower air travel, remote learning schools, limited large gatherings combined drops it another 1/3. At or below an R1. It never gets a foothold.

When Alpha was at an R3 and no vaccine the same 1/3 reduction drops it to an R2. It continued to spread exponentially. When the vaccines took hold we could see the dramatic drop in new cases (past infection and vaccine)

Highly transmittable Delta at R5 with a less effective vaccine against the variant and opening economies resulted in a fast growth in cases.

It is simply far more easily spread covid vs the flu (32/243/3125) and less face to face contact that decimated the flu's ability to spread that only slowed covid, though not enough to stop it in it's tracks like the less infective flu.

This is a great explanation.

How does this explain 345,000 deaths from SARS 2 and 1800 flu cases last year? Not sure, but it sort of looks like there were no deaths from the flu last year. Flu shot must have been 110% effective.


Oh yeah, and how does that explain going from 38,000,000 flu cases in 2019 to 1800 cases in 2020?

[upsscott]

I would thank the pandemic conditions are the cause of the low flu numbers. Masking, distancing, stay away from large indoor gatherings, and a general fear of going to the ER or doctor may have something to do with it.

[island911]

"There's no evidence of any more deaths among the Amish than in places that shut down tight— some claim there were fewer here. That’s without masking, staying at home, or vaccines," Attkisson reported.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/10/10/attkisson_how_amish_communities_became_the_first_t o_acheive_herd_immunity_from_covid-19_in_may_2020.html

[island911]

BOOSTER Time

And the unvaccinated need it to protect the vaccinated. Ol Joe sez so.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by island911

BOOSTER Time

And the unvaccinated need it to protect the vaccinated. Ol Joe sez so.

Why did you get it?