Vaccines are moving the needle...

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by javadog

The numbers have changed over times, the percentage of the vaccinated getting sick and dying is larger today than it was a few months ago.

Hell, even that liar Fauci admits that much.

And yet, the numbers aren't even close. And as the unvaccinated continue to get this virus and spread this virus, we'll see more mutations that allow the virus to escape protection.

[cabmandone]

Because total number of doses administered is meaningless when you consider the total percentage of the global population that is fully vaccinated.. But some folks refuse to understand that very basic fact. And by some I mean island.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by cabmando

And yet, the numbers aren't even close. And as the unvaccinated continue to get this virus and spread this virus, we'll see more mutations that allow the virus to escape protection.

Every virologist that I have read suggest that it’s the vaccination rate that’s going to drive the mutations. The higher the vaccination rate, the more mutations we will get.

The vaccinating are spreading the virus just as much as the unvaccinated are. It might even be worse than that, given that the vaccinated are probably living their life a little less carefully than those that are unvaccinated.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by javadog

Every virologist that I have read suggest that it’s the vaccination rate that’s going to drive the mutations. The higher the vaccination rate, the more mutations we will get.

The vaccinating are spreading the virus just as much as the unvaccinated are. It might even be worse than that, given that the vaccinated are probably living their life a little less carefully than those that are unvaccinated.

Then why hasn't it?

And on the second point there's not evidence to support that assertion. Vaccinated people can spread it if the viral load is similar to that of the unvaccinated but that's not happening in every breakthrough case.

[Rikao4]

Originally Posted by cabmando

I'm not at all worried about you or anyone else "getting me" The fact of the matter is, the unvaccinated are the ones being hospitalized and dying from the virus. I figure at some point things will self correct when the national IQ raises as a result. The best case scenario is that hospitals stop giving Regeneron and other treatments to unvaccinated people and save it for those who did the right thing but their body didn't generate a strong enough response to the vaccine.

you get it because of what..
your special...
took the jabs..
you'd suck air just like everyone one else..
and trust me on this..
you wouldn't care one bit if I / or they was unvax's..
playing with your tubes...


Rika

[cabmandone]

^^^
Blah blah blah
blah blah
Blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah

None of what you wrote addressed anything I mentioned. But it reads really cool so there's that!

Or maybe better... chomp chomp chomp... word salad is delicious!

[javadog]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Then why hasn't it?

And on the second point there's not evidence to support that assertion. Vaccinated people can spread it if the viral load is similar to that of the unvaccinated but that's not happening in every breakthrough case.

Who says that the vaccination rate isn’t driving the mutations?

I think it’s a little early to come to a conclusion one way or the other, as I don’t think the analysis has been done yet. It is a phenomenon that is well known in virology, so I don’t see it being any different with Covid than it is with any other virus.

Studies have indicated that there is no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated Covid patients.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by island911

Tell us more about your newfound abuse of power.

Just me, or is he deleting thread comments he doesn’t agree with?

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by javadog

Who says that the vaccination rate isn’t driving the mutations?

I think it’s a little early to come to a conclusion one way or the other, as I don’t think the analysis has been done yet. It is a phenomenon that is well known in virology, so I don’t see it being any different with Covid than it is with any other virus.

Studies have indicated that there is no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated Covid patients.

What evidence do you have or any of the virologist you've heard have that they are? Every single variant has come from a country where vaccination rates are low and viral spread is high. Every single one.

And those studies mean that vaccinated people "can" not necessarily "do" And your assessment isn't accurate since that's among people with symptoms IIRC not asymptomatic

https://theconversation.com/no-vaccinated-people-are-not-just-as-infectious-as-unvaccinated-people-if-they-get-covid-171302

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by javadog

Just me, or is he deleting thread comments he doesn’t agree with?

No. I'm deleting comments that bring me into the conversation. This thread isn't about me.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by cabmando

What evidence do you have or any of the virologist you've heard have that they are?

And those studies mean that vaccinated people "can" not necessarily "do"

Here’s an article from before Covid and about viruses and chickens that will explain the concept to you. I picked this article because of its timing and its subject, which removes the threat of any political bias from what is stated:

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/

As for “can” vs. “do” here are two direct quotes from a couple studies:

“Although peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type”

“ shows no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant difference between infected people with or without symptoms.”

That isn’t can, it’s do. As in definite, not just possible.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by javadog

Here’s an article from before Covid and about viruses and chickens that will explain the concept to you. I picked this article because of its timing and its subject, which removes the threat of any political bias from what is stated:

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/

As for “can” vs. “do” here are two direct quotes from a couple studies:

“Although peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type”

“ shows no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant difference between infected people with or without symptoms.”

That isn’t can, it’s do. As in definite, not just possible.

But if you read the article I linked it explains why that claim isn't accurate as well as explains that some of the studies aren't peer reviewed.

[gordner]

Originally Posted by javadog

Who says that the vaccination rate isn’t driving the mutations?

I think it’s a little early to come to a conclusion one way or the other, as I don’t think the analysis has been done yet. It is a phenomenon that is well known in virology, so I don’t see it being any different with Covid than it is with any other virus.

Studies have indicated that there is no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated Covid patients.

Your last line is correct, if you cut the study off 24-36 hours after infection. After that, the delta in viral load is huge, with the vaccinated individual holding a much lower viral load of course. Therefore much lower chance of spread or serious illness. As is borne out in all the numbers.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by gordner

Your last line is correct, if you cut the study off 24-36 hours after infection. After that, the delta in viral load is huge, with the vaccinated individual holding a much lower viral load of course. Therefore much lower chance of spread or serious illness. As is borne out in all the numbers.

It has also been shown that a vaccinated person clears the virus faster than an unvaccinated person which means the vaccinated person isn't contagious for as long as an unvaccinated person.

[gordner]

Everything indicates vaccinated fair better and cause less damage to others. It is quite evident in the numbers, for those who miss how evident it is in pure common sense.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by gordner

Your last line is correct, if you cut the study off 24-36 hours after infection. After that, the delta in viral load is huge, with the vaccinated individual holding a much lower viral load of course. Therefore much lower chance of spread or serious illness. As is borne out in all the numbers.

Originally Posted by cabmando

It has also been shown that a vaccinated person clears the virus faster than an unvaccinated person which means the vaccinated person isn't contagious for as long as an unvaccinated person.

There’s more to it than that. Viral loads can vary and those with higher viral loads show longer times for a viral loads to decline, regardless of vaccination status.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by gordner

Everything indicates vaccinated fair better and cause less damage to others. It is quite evident in the numbers, for those who miss how evident it is in pure common sense.

From the study:

SAR among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% [95% CI 15–35] for vaccinated vs 23% [15–31] for unvaccinated)

[javadog]

You guys are forgetting one aspect of the problem. We are not accounting for the time between becoming fully vaccinated and when these people were recruited for studies. And if you look at the curve of vaccine efficacy, it declines fairly rapidly after a few months and the confidence windows wide. Someone that is six months down the road from their vaccine, which is pretty ****ing likely for just about everybody in the country at this point, may not have any better characteristics then someone that has never been vaccinated. And I still say that those that have had Covid and recovered are far better off than the average vaccinated person.

Lastly, regardless of where you come out on this particular question, the numbers are getting worse for the vaccinated portion of the population, every single month. That is not a happy trend.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by javadog

You guys are forgetting one aspect of the problem. We are not accounting for the time between becoming fully vaccinated and when these people were recruited for studies. And if you look at the curve of vaccine efficacy, it declines fairly rapidly after a few months and the confidence windows wide. Someone that is six months down the road from their vaccine, which is pretty ****ing likely for just about everybody in the country at this point, may not have any better characteristics then someone that has never been vaccinated. And I still say that those that have had Covid and recovered are far better off than the average vaccinated person.

Lastly, regardless of where you come out on this particular question, the numbers are getting worse for the vaccinated portion of the population, every single month. That is not a happy trend.

Say what you want but the facts don't support that assertion.
And no one ever said there wouldn't be breakthrough cases. If you look at the example of Illinois, the majority are among the 65+ age group which is where things stood prior to vaccination. The difference? We're not losing as many people in that age group as we once were.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by javadog

There’s more to it than that. Viral loads can vary and those with higher viral loads show longer times for a viral loads to decline, regardless of vaccination status.

Not according to the studies cited in the article I linked.