Flipped off again at a stoplight

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Why wouldn't you be ready in 1st when it turns green ?!?!?

If you put it in neutral instead of just holding the clutch down, it saves wear on the pilot bearing.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

If you put it in neutral instead of just holding the clutch down, it saves wear on the pilot bearing.

And your leg.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

And your leg.

[mistertate]

And the thrust bearing

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Why wouldn't you be ready in 1st when it turns green ?!?!?
Driving a Manual isn't a handicap

It is when you are.

[fintstone]

Yep. I always go to neutral on a stick at a red light...then watch the other lights (perpendicular to me) to turn yellow to put it back in gear.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yep. I always go to neutral on a stick at a red light...then watch the other lights (perpendicular to me) to turn yellow to put it back in gear.

Exactly. I watch the other lights or if they are shrouded and there are crosswalk lights, I'll watch those. It doesn't take that long to put a car in gear and head out if you're paying attention even if you aren't watching the lights for the cross-street.

[oldE]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yep. I always go to neutral on a stick at a red light...then watch the other lights (perpendicular to me) to turn yellow to put it back in gear.

I do the same with one exception: if there is no one behind me and another vehicle is approaching my 6, I will remain in gear with the intention of getting the heck out of the way if they're not stopping.

Best
Les

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

If you put it in neutral instead of just holding the clutch down, it saves wear on the pilot bearing.

Me thinks yer calf muscle will wear out from that heavy Porsche clutch, looooooooooooooooooooooooooong before your Porsches pilot bearing will.


Has anybody ever seen a gearbox fail with a worn pilot bearing?

Cause I haven't, we have (had untill recently) mostly manuals in Europe
Nobody here on forums discusses how to shift, never mind how to "protect" their pilot bearing by going neutral at stop lights.. I bet most don't know what a pilot bearing is, it's a non issue in the continent where manuals are the default... So that it keeps coming up on American car forums.. I thinks says more bout Americans and manuals then about manuals and pilot bearings

[stevej37]

^^^ It's similar to the 'old wives tale' that resting your hand on the shifter, while driving, will wear out your linkage fast.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Me thinks yer calf muscle will wear out from that heavy Porsche clutch, looooooooooooooooooooooooooong before your Porsches pilot bearing will.


Has anybody ever seen a gearbox fail with a worn pilot bearing?

Cause I haven't, we have (had untill recently) mostly manuals in Europe
Nobody here on forums discusses how to shift, never mind how to "protect" their pilot bearing by going neutral at stop lights.. I bet most don't know what a pilot bearing is, it's a non issue in the continent where manuals are the default... So that it keeps coming up on American car forums.. I thinks says more bout Americans and manuals then about manuals and pilot bearings

Of course, Stijn...we crude Americans know for a fact the Europe does everything better. But do keep on reminding us.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Me thinks yer calf muscle will wear out from that heavy Porsche clutch, looooooooooooooooooooooooooong before your Porsches pilot bearing will.


Has anybody ever seen a gearbox fail with a worn pilot bearing?

Cause I haven't, we have (had untill recently) mostly manuals in Europe
Nobody here on forums discusses how to shift, never mind how to "protect" their pilot bearing by going neutral at stop lights.. I bet most don't know what a pilot bearing is, it's a non issue in the continent where manuals are the default... So that it keeps coming up on American car forums.. I thinks says more bout Americans and manuals then about manuals and pilot bearings

I think it was Wayne that posted about the thrust bearing years ago on the technical board. This was the first that I heard about a pilot bearing.

The theory, as I understand it, about the thrust bearing is that the pressure from the back end keeps the crank from moving forward/backward like it would/could with the clutch pressed.

I thought that to pass a driving test over there, you had to put the car in neutral with the parking brake on at stops. Maybe that's just an England thing, or maybe I'm completely off-base.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by stevej37

^^^ It's similar to the 'old wives tale' that resting your hand on the shifter, while driving, will wear out your linkage fast.

I suspect there's an element of truth to all of these.

Here's a site saying hand on stick is bad. And, I suspect, hand on stick doesn't have to be bad. But there are probably some folks that grip the stick or have a very heavy hand on it, and they may actually cause issues. Also, the diagram used in this article is for a front engined rear drive tranny where the shifter is inserted into the tail housing of the tranny which is pretty positive engagement.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-rest-your-hand-on-the-gearstick-when-driving/

This article says it's no big deal, and their assertion, at least that my quick scan saw is that the shifter doesn't directly engage with the transmission (like the article above). They go so far as to use cable operated shifters as their example (which is common).
https://raceseng.com/blog/general/is-it-bad-to-rest-your-hand-on-the-shifter/

So, could some shifters be a problem and some not? And maybe it's for ham-fisted folks that are practically using the shifter as a grab handle?

As far as the clutch in/out thing and the thrust bearing, I can see that too. Maybe it's more of an issue on certain cars and engines more than others. Maybe it's more of an issue after their miles stack up.

I'm sure we've all been on the road and seen folks that ride their brakes. It's probably fine for some folks to drive with their left foot hovering over their brake pedal, but then I have seen that some folks rest their left foot on the brakes enough to engage the brake lights which is probably causing all sorts of relatively minor issues (fuel mileage, increased wear, etc...).

I think it's a bit short sighted to say that these are all 100% BS.

[stevej37]

[QUOTE=masraum;11507240]I suspect there's an element of truth to all of these.


True...when I rest my hand on the shifter....there is not much weight bearing down.
But a 250 lb'r would be a different story. I weigh less than 150 and have doing that for over 40 years with no problems.

[masraum]

[QUOTE=stevej37;11507297]

Originally Posted by masraum

True...when I rest my hand on the shifter....there is not much weight bearing down.
But a 250 lb'r would be a different story. I weigh less than 150 and have doing that for over 40 years with no problems.

And even then, it's probably less about being a big fella and maybe more about someone that grips the shifter or puts some sort of lateral pressure on it, always pushing it slightly to the side or pulling slightly back on it.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Of course, Stijn...we crude Americans know for a fact the Europe does everything better. But do keep on reminding us.

Well when it's about driving a manual, i would have no doubt bout that
since that's all we had untill recently. To us it's normal, and not something anybody discusses technique about.. If you drive a car, you know how to drive a manual around here.

Originally Posted by masraum

The theory, as I understand it, about the thrust bearing is that the pressure from the back end keeps the crank from moving forward/backward like it would/could with the clutch pressed.


I thought that to pass a driving test over there, you had to put the car in neutral with the parking brake on at stops. Maybe that's just an England thing, or maybe I'm completely off-base.

Not in Belgium, you do have to park on an steep incline
show you can stop the car, put on the parking brake
and then drive off again without stalling the engine, which requires proper use of the clutch and some coordination

You wouldn't put it in neutral on an incline as you are supposed to park it in gear to assist the parking brake on the incline.





Either way, The question remains

Who here has first hand , ever seen a broken transmission, with a pilot bearing being the fault.

Millions of cars
millions of drivers

Find me one example if you want to give the theory some credibility
Surely that's not to much to ask ?

And if you can't offer a first hand example
The internet is very big and has all kinds of examples

1 forum topic anywhere, any car brand
title "My transmission is broken"
and somewhere in the thread "we tore it down, turns out that it was the pilot bearing, mechanic asked if i keep it in gear, clutch out at stop lights"

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Me thinks yer calf muscle will wear out from that heavy Porsche clutch, looooooooooooooooooooooooooong before your Porsches pilot bearing will.


Has anybody ever seen a gearbox fail with a worn pilot bearing?

Cause I haven't, we have (had untill recently) mostly manuals in Europe
Nobody here on forums discusses how to shift, never mind how to "protect" their pilot bearing by going neutral at stop lights.. I bet most don't know what a pilot bearing is, it's a non issue in the continent where manuals are the default... So that it keeps coming up on American car forums.. I thinks says more bout Americans and manuals then about manuals and pilot bearings

I am more concerned with my leg muscle and my clutch mechanism. Yes, I have killed several pressure plates and linkages...none on 911s.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Well when it's about driving a manual, i would have no doubt bout that
since that's all we had untill recently. To us it's normal, and not something anybody discusses technique about.. If you drive a car, you know how to drive a manual around here.





Not in Belgium, you do have to park on an steep incline
show you can stop the car, put on the parking brake
and then drive off again without stalling the engine, which requires proper use of the clutch and some coordination

You wouldn't put it in neutral on an incline as you are supposed to park it in gear to assist the parking brake on the incline.





Either way, The question remains

Who here has first hand , ever seen a broken transmission, with a pilot bearing being the fault.

Millions of cars
millions of drivers

Find me one example if you want to give the theory some credibility
Surely that's not to much to ask ?

And if you can't offer a first hand example
The internet is very big and has all kinds of examples

1 forum topic anywhere, any car brand
title "My transmission is broken"
and somewhere in the thread "we tore it down, turns out that it was the pilot bearing, mechanic asked if i keep it in gear, clutch out at stop lights"

Again, I believe the thrust bearing is the real reason, not the pilot bearing. But you seem to have latched onto the whole pilot bearing thing.

I've never experienced a bad pilot bearing, so no first hand.

But here's a thread with pics.

Late model Pontiac GTO
https://www.ls1gto.com/threads/me-too-pilot-bearing-carnage-inside.450589/

Porsche 944
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/944-clutch-wear-bad-pilot-bearing/162908/page1/

[svandamme]

then thrustbearing, ffs, I'm not the one that claims there's a problem with any bearing from not going to neutral at stop lights.Heel N Toe said pilot bearing, not me. I didn't bring it up I'm replying to those who did

I've sat through countless traffic jams in 1st starting, stopping starting stopping never going to neutral for ages..

Yet i've never had any transmission failure or clutch failure in all my years driving a car.
I would think T jams are way more of a hassle for a transmission then the occasional stoplight.

Transmissions are designed to deal with that..
all the power and vibration from normal or sporty driving


yet the thing would somehow destroy itself for not going to neutral at stop lights?
please...

To me it's about as credible as Sasquatch , the Terrible yeti, or haunted mansions.

that LS1 link of yours was probably more likely caused by the driver launching all his ls1 horses at red lights to race then from normal stop and go driving
And if it's not the pilot bearing that we are talking about, then why do you give a pilot bearing thread as example of an issue from stop and go driving?

Explain to me why only Americans talk about it
And No european drivers have issues with it in their cars?

[DonDavis]

Originally Posted by svandamme

…snip…Transmissions are designed to deal with that..
all the power and vibration from normal or sporty driving

yet the thing would somehow destroy itself for not going to neutral at stop lights?
please...

To me it's about as credible as Sasquatch , the Terrible yeti, or haunted mansions…

I snipped his post a bit, but I agree with everything Stijn said.

Except about the yeti, mine keeps my coffee nice and toasty.

I have a cousin that does the “neutral at lights” thing. Light turns green, he puts in the clutch, wiggles the shifter, finds 1st, then begins to pull away. Not cool.

If holding in a clutch is too much effort, get an automatic. Problem solved.

This thread is more proof that everyone would benefit from advanced driver training.

But then again, what do I know…