Getting back into cycling

[herr_oberst]

Otto, one thing to think about is that bikes have gotten a lot better. Entry level stuff a year or two old is really good. (I'm talking about bike shop bikes, not department store bikes). The last ten years have seen unreal advancements in materials and engineering.

Pro racers have mostly abandoned sew up tires. There's still a few guys that like them, but tire technology has gone off the charts in terms of rolling resistance and comfort, not to mention ease of maintenance. We used to ride on 21 or 23's. Nowadays 25's are too skinny for a lot of riders.
11 speed freewheels are the norm. 12 speed is no longer exotic. Disc brakes work great wet or dry.

My first century was actually a double; (jyl was a huge motivator) I rode it on a high end steel bike from the '80's and even though it was fun, I would never do it again on that bike - as beautiful as it is to look at, it is just pretty much obsolete.. It would be like using a rotary phone after years of using push button phones. Not to mention, finding matching replacement parts is becoming problematic. (I broke a handlebar once - finding a decent replacement without getting reamed financially required a few weeks of searching)


Having said that, yes to the idea of finding an stem with an extra long quill. Get on your bike sooner rather than later. Start a routine, do some short rides Monday through Friday and then carve out some time for Long Slow Distance rides on Saturday or Sunday. There's a ton of good advice and schedule templates on the google for cyclists getting ready for their first century.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

Food for thought.

You know, if you are open to gravel biking, go take a look. They are fun as heck, and if you get the 2x in the front, you will probably won't outrun your high end gearing in any meaningful way. Avoid the 1x setups. Good news- the 2x (what youd want) is usually on the lower / mid end $$$ anyway.

You can always go to narrower road tires than the stock 38-42c setup if you wanted too, then switch back to wider tires after your 100 miler.

Most road bikes have gone up in tire size so much 28c+ to the point where the line between a road bike and gravel bike can get blurred. A lot of times I have to get up really close to something to figure out what the heck it even is.

I haven't really touched my road bikes since going gravel bike. Most of the roads here are so bad, they are more gravel like anyways.

As for size, some of these brands do have 61,62, 64 size bikes---which most stores arent going to stock in house, but, I bet you could get one discounted mail order if you knew what you wanted. I see a lot of bike companies will have some online ordering and some sizzling great deal, BUT the only bikes left are the largest sizes.

You could also try what the local bike store has, and if you like the model, see if they can order the larger size for you.

You are a big dude. Unless you have some leg/torso discrepancy, it seems like one would be close.

Seriously- go ride some new stuff. Just to get a feel.


This is a random size chart I pulled off the net, ignore the circled items. Not every brand/model goes to 64, but there are a lot of 61's out there.

I need to air up mine and take her out.

[otto_kretschmer]

Tucson built a loop sometime after I had to leave 23 years ago.

https://www.arizonabikerides.com/rides/586/the-loop-bike-ride-tucson/

no cars, just bikes, joggers and people walking.



When I'm done with this vintage build I may start looking for a modern bike. Titanium or graphite.

I've been rolling around some ideas of building a home grown carbon bike. It would be made out of pieces like a steel brazed bike with lugs, but glued together like a composite airplane.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

I've been rolling around some ideas of building a home grown carbon bike. It would be made out of pieces like a steel brazed bike with lugs, but glued together like a composite airplane.

Check out the Vitus Carbone from the 1980's.

[look 171]

Lugged carbon frames still has that real nice riding quality to 'em. My Time is lugged so was my Look. But the latest monocoque carbon frames are amazing. I think finally, engineers are able to dial in that special feel in the past 10 years. Stiff where's needed, compliant where necessary.

I think building a steel frame is hard enough (I don't know how to weld or braze), but a carbon frame must be dead accurate. That's a tough built. If you do, please keep us in the loop. I for one would love to see all the details that goes into doing this. My only experience was help built the solar car's carbon fiber body back in college. This was when carbon was the rage, new material that are just as strong as metal but light as a feather. That was how they sold it to us. I already knew about it from bike frames.

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

Check out the Vitus Carbone from the 1980's.

thats sort of a hybrid graphite/aluminum bike

fyi for anyone... Graphite and Carbon Fiber are interchangeable.

Whoever made the Vitus Carbone bought the tubes from one company and probably had a different company die cast or investment cast the lugs in aluminum and then they glued the frame together with an adhesive like Hysol 9394.

Todays bikes use a multi piece aluminum mold that costs (guessing here) a half million or more and I would expect there is a bladder inside when the frame is cured.

a clever guy (gal?) can make a lot of things with composites

I read somewhere that the structure of the DCX single stage to orbit experiment was made out of carbon fiber cloth and room temp cure epoxy. Scaled Composites and Burt Rutan were involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-X

[sc_rufctr]

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by look 171

Lugged carbon frames still has that real nice riding quality to 'em. My Time is lugged so was my Look. But the latest monocoque carbon frames are amazing. I think finally, engineers are able to dial in that special feel in the past 10 years. Stiff where's needed, compliant where necessary.

I think building a steel frame is hard enough (I don't know how to weld or braze), but a carbon frame must be dead accurate. That's a tough built. If you do, please keep us in the loop. I for one would love to see all the details that goes into doing this. My only experience was help built the solar car's carbon fiber body back in college. This was when carbon was the rage, new material that are just as strong as metal but light as a feather. That was how they sold it to us. I already knew about it from bike frames.

The big boys have the bucks. They use CNC machined aluminum molds, 250 F cure prepreg carbon fiber uni directional cloth and they cure the bike in an autoclave at around 100 psi. The parts come out perfect without any voids or air pockets in the laminate and all the extra resin is squeezed out of the part.

If I built a bike in my garage I would have to use soft molds made out of fiberglass or maybe even plastic from a 3D printer. I'll use a woven dry fabric with room temp cure epoxy and I'll use a vacuum bag to compact the parts while the resin cures. My frame would be maybe 25% heavier. I don't have the analysis skills and programs to do a real finite element analysis that a big firm can afford. I would just build a bike and do a destructive test on it.

ugh.. I tried building a bike 20 years ago and wasn't happy with it. Its in a landfill now somewhere in Riverside.

Anyone read Kevin Cameron's column in Cycleworld? He talks about racebikes as being ideas of the guys who built those machines. Every season you get a machine with new ideas and the old machine is unceremoniously dumped in a shredder.

I have to get my Cannondale on the road. I've thought about it today and I'm going to get new tires (if they fit), so go from 23 to 32 and borrow the mountain bike stem from my sisters old race bike. Raise the bars up 2 1/2" and fatter tires may make the bike comfortably enough to start putting on miles. Three months from now I'll have all the cobwebs blown out.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

The big boys have the bucks. They use CNC machined aluminum molds, 250 F cure prepreg carbon fiber uni directional cloth and they cure the bike in an autoclave at around 100 psi. The parts come out perfect without any voids or air pockets in the laminate and all the extra resin is squeezed out of the part.

If I built a bike in my garage I would have to use soft molds made out of fiberglass or maybe even plastic from a 3D printer. I'll use a woven dry fabric with room temp cure epoxy and I'll use a vacuum bag to compact the parts while the resin cures. My frame would be maybe 25% heavier. I don't have the analysis skills and programs to do a real finite element analysis that a big firm can afford. I would just build a bike and do a destructive test on it.

ugh.. I tried building a bike 20 years ago and wasn't happy with it. Its in a landfill now somewhere in Riverside.

Anyone read Kevin Cameron's column in Cycleworld? He talks about racebikes as being ideas of the guys who built those machines. Every season you get a machine with new ideas and the old machine is unceremoniously dumped in a shredder.

I have to get my Cannondale on the road. I've thought about it today and I'm going to get new tires (if they fit), so go from 23 to 32 and borrow the mountain bike stem from my sisters old race bike. Raise the bars up 2 1/2" and fatter tires may make the bike comfortably enough to start putting on miles. Three months from now I'll have all the cobwebs blown out.

32mm tires? I think that Cannondale will only take up to 25-28 mm tires if you are lucky. Just air the tires up to 85 lbs and it should ride like having a spring under you. You are not even in your mid 50s yet so ride those skinny tires This morning, a bunch of strong riders handed me my ass on a 50 mile ride. There were at least 6-7 50 something year old men in there dishing out some of the pain. These guys ride a lot, 150-250 miles a week. I suffered by gluing myself 2" to their wheels from the 57 fwy (turn around point) all the way up to Sierra Marde through the foothills. Since you mentioned Riverside, you must know LA a bit. I was dropped 3 miles to the top near the town of Sierra Marde. We avg. 22 mph coming back up the foothills. If these old farts can dish out good power for 50 miles, you can too. Plus, you are a taller guy, with longer leg muscles. It should take you a couple weeks to get your legs back then work toward 50 miles within the first month should be a piece of cake.

[otto_kretschmer]

I lived in the Temecula area for 17 years give or take. My jobs were in Escondido, Lake Forrest, Canoga Park and Palm Desert. I mostly drove thru LA back and forth.

Its Sunday and the bike shops are closed and most will be closed tomorrow. I can get that stem though..

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

Anyone ever ride a carbon fork on a steel frame?

Yes, don’t do it. Beats the whole reason for steel.

[KFC911]

I keep seeing the thread title and think....

Recycling

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

I have to get my Cannondale on the road. I've thought about it today and I'm going to get new tires (if they fit), so go from 23 to 32 and borrow the mountain bike stem from my sisters old race bike. Raise the bars up 2 1/2" and fatter tires may make the bike comfortably enough to start putting on miles. Three months from now I'll have all the cobwebs blown out.

I'd suggest that with those rims a 25/26mm tire is the widest that will work on it. Anything wider, regardless of whether or not it fits the frame and fork is oakley to roll off the rim when you turn in, especially going fast downhill..... possibly to be avoided.

The rim is likely to be 17mm wide and so check with the tire makers what they reckon. I know my Mavic M40 rims from that era are really not suitable for anything more than 26mm... and the ride on them is better than the 23s but nothing like a 28 or 30mm.

That being said a set of modern rim braked wheels, either alloy or carbon will be wider (19mm) and so suitable for 25 and upwards to at least a 30mm tire. There are a number of (relatively) inexpensive 50mm carbon aero rims that are designed around 28mm tires. Worth it for the additional speed even with an older frame.

I found the aero rims allow a 2-3 km/h average speed increase over a 199 km ride with the same effort.. or maintaining the previous speed with less effort. Much appreciated.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by upsscott

Yes, don’t do it. Beats the whole reason for steel.

Why? If your reason is to stay original then having a steel fork (there's nothing wrong with a steel fork. I raced and thrashed many) is similar to using 1960s skinny tire/ technology on a 911 for the track instead of using a wider modern tire only the gap isn't that huge. Why do you think a steel fork is never seen on any of the newer frames including steel, stainless, alum, scandium, Ti and so on. One of the reason is weight there are a few other benefits also.

A carbon steer tube (a bonded alum. steer tube is Ok too, I suppose) fork with threadless headset is the way to go on steel bikes, IMO.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by MFAFF

I'd suggest that with those rims a 25/26mm tire is the widest that will work on it. Anything wider, regardless of whether or not it fits the frame and fork is oakley to roll off the rim when you turn in, especially going fast downhill..... possibly to be avoided.

The rim is likely to be 17mm wide and so check with the tire makers what they reckon. I know my Mavic M40 rims from that era are really not suitable for anything more than 26mm... and the ride on them is better than the 23s but nothing like a 28 or 30mm.

That being said a set of modern rim braked wheels, either alloy or carbon will be wider (19mm) and so suitable for 25 and upwards to at least a 30mm tire. There are a number of (relatively) inexpensive 50mm carbon aero rims that are designed around 28mm tires. Worth it for the additional speed even with an older frame.

I found the aero rims allow a 2-3 km/h average speed increase over a 199 km ride with the same effort.. or maintaining the previous speed with less effort. Much appreciated.

I am a huge fan of deep dish wheels. When they were available to the public way back, it was alum. A bike shop owner said, try these, and handed his personal set over to me. I was told I can ride one tooth smaller on the rear cog with them using the same effort. I was in pretty good shape then. rode a lot so I went on my regular route. What a difference. I went back the next day, ordered a set. They make a HUGE difference. I think one mph can be had but the trick is the speed must be over 17 mph or so in order for them to be effective. The modern dish wheels are so light that they beat out any of the old school high spoke count wheels plus the aero benefit, they are superior wheels. Dont forget, they are tough and durable also.

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by look 171

Why? If your reason is to stay original then having a steel fork (there's nothing wrong with a steel fork. I raced and thrashed many) is similar to using 1960s skinny tire/ technology on a 911 for the track instead of using a wider modern tire only the gap isn't that huge. Why do you think a steel fork is never seen on any of the newer frames including steel, stainless, alum, scandium, Ti and so on. One of the reason is weight there are a few other benefits also.

A carbon steer tube (a bonded alum. steer tube is Ok too, I suppose) fork with threadless headset is the way to go on steel bikes, IMO.

I don't think a carbon fork is available that can fit the vintage bike I'm building but I bet there is one for the Cannondale.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

I don't think a carbon fork is available that can fit the vintage bike I'm building but I bet there is one for the Cannondale.

It is impossible to get a 1" threadless carbon fork to begin with, unless its used. A full carbon, not an alum steer tube is even more difficult. Steel may be the next best thing only because there aren't many choices. Being a large size frame makes it more difficult.

[look 171]

Here you go, They are still available. Now, only a headset is needed. https://www.incycle.com/products/ritchey-comp-carbon-fork?variant=39676801613955&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic

I like the FSA threadless headset. Cheap, and the quality is pretty dang good. No need to buy Campy. I have one on my Ti bike as well as my Conlago.

[look 171]

here's a cheaper one. I have never heard of the companies but I would buy from Performance or well known places for 20 bucks more. That's just me. https://www.starbike.com/en/ritchey-comp-road-carbon-fork-700c-368mm-43mm-100x9mm-qr-rim-brake-matte-carbon-ud/?country=US&currency=USD#135978

One thing about brakes, old school side pull brakes SUCKS but were excellent for their time. If you do get a chance, get the latest gen Ultegra brakes calipers. They stop REALLY well and cheap. I put them on my kids Ridley which he out grew to replace the previous gen. Dura-ace.

https://www.deluxe-bike.com/products/shimano-ultegra-br-r8000-brake-caliper-1-pair?variant=41685487878316&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic

AGain, they were the cheapest. They normally run about 60-70 bucks per. Depending on the lever, they may not be as effect with the old fashion ones you may have on the bike. We had the last gen Dura-Ace so it work flawlessly.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by look 171

Why? If your reason is to stay original then having a steel fork (there's nothing wrong with a steel fork. I raced and thrashed many) is similar to using 1960s skinny tire/ technology on a 911 for the track instead of using a wider modern tire only the gap isn't that huge. Why do you think a steel fork is never seen on any of the newer frames including steel, stainless, alum, scandium, Ti and so on. One of the reason is weight there are a few other benefits also.

A carbon steer tube (a bonded alum. steer tube is Ok too, I suppose) fork with threadless headset is the way to go on steel bikes, IMO.

I felt like I was losing the forgiving benefits of steel when I had a carbon fork on a steel frame. Now I must say that this was on a single speed Surly Mtn bike that I had. It just felt weird like I was taking all the vibes in my hands.