The joy of buying a car

[gregpark]

I don't buy brand new cars. It just seems like a bad investment to me. The last new vehicles I bought were my truck in '03 and a motorcycle in '07. I struck a deal on both over the phone. I called every Toyota dealership within 100 miles and they all want you to come down to their arena but I told them no, I'm going to buy a new silver 4x4 Tundra with limited slip today over the phone and I'm shopping on you. After 5 hours on the phone bouncing back and forth between sales guys and eventually sales managers I finally found the bottom line. It came down to 2 hungry sales guys and the one says just go get it from the other guy. He was closer so I said I'd be right down. I negotiated out the door price so no surprises. The sticker price was $32,500 and I bought it for $25,000 including tax and license. He was disappointedwhen I showed up with cash but a deal is a deal. Pretty much the same with the motorcycle. $15k sticker, out the door for 10k. Both sales guys asked me to not tell anyone how much I paid.

[dentist90]

Salesman A’s comment about not providing service may have just cost the dealership even more than the lost sale. What a maroon.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by dentist90

Salesman A’s comment about not providing service may have just cost the dealership even more than the lost sale. What a maroon.

A lot of customers assume they'll be persona non grata at the dealership they go to for service if they didn't buy it there.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

I found quite the opposite...the Ford dealer was disappointed when I turned down the finance offer & wrote the one payment check. Ditto the Toyota dealer.

That's because they make money on the finance or lease contract.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

A lot of customers assume they'll be persona non grata at the dealership they go to for service if they didn't buy it there.

I can feel the stink eye I'm getting when I bring my Rav in for service.

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

That's because they make money on the finance or lease contract.

Yep. I didn't realize that until I was buying a car several years ago and the dealer offered me a better deal if I financed. I asked why and they actually explained it to me. I still didn't finance because I hate paying interest.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by gregpark

I don't buy brand new cars. It just seems like a bad investment to me.

I rarely bought brand new cars until recently. I bought a new Highlander for my wife back in 2020 and a new Rav4 TRD Offroad for me in 2022. Prior to that I typically bought low mile used. My 2012 F250 has a whopping 102,000 miles on it and I bought it with 34K on it. Low mileage used vehicles are so close to new prices and have been for several years now it seems, that I just can't justify buying used. My daughter wanted a car she could drive for the next ten years or more. At that point, new becomes a no brainer when used is close.

[Steve Carlton]

It was an old school negotiating tactic to work a low price with financing included, then at the last minute say "I think I'll just pay cash." I don't think that tactic works anymore.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

It was an old school negotiating tactic to work a low price with financing included, then at the last minute say "I think I'll just pay cash." I don't think that tactic works anymore.

The first two questions I was asked were cash or finance? and any trade? The financing was really what turned us more towards new. Subaru was running 3.9% for up to 72 months. I typically hate 72 months for a car loan but I asked if there was any penalty for early payoff which they said there wasn't. There was only a marginal rate reduction if we went 36 months or less. So I told my daughter to get the 72 month loan and pay like it's a 36 when she can afford to. Seeing as how she had saved a significant amount for down payment I knew she'd do just that. I was hesitant to let her put 15K down but figured with rates dropping in the not too distant future, she was gonna be hard pressed to earn 4% on anything with easy access to the money. If I thought she could have earned more with interest than she was paying, I would have suggested putting much less down.

[RANDY P]

Cars grow on trees. I get a salesman who screws with me and tries tricks because he thinks he's the only game in the galaxy I WILL walk.

The lowest price isn't THAT hard to find- integrity is.

rjp

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Salesman A is lying about having to go somewhere else to service the car.

+1
The dealership is required to honor the manufacturer warranty.
Also, the dealer makes more money in the service department than they do on new car sales. I know from experience that there is NO LOVE between the two departments. Each department has their own budget and profit quota. It is like two separate businesses under the same roof.

[Por_sha911]

-Having sold cars, I knew their tactics and used the same against them.
-How much are you wanting to spend? - It depends on the car.
-What monthly payment and down payment are you looking for? - We'll talk about that after you give the out the door price with nothing else added.
-Will you be trading in a car? - No (and then when the lowest price is found, change my mind).
-What price will you buy this car for? - It doesn't matter. Its your car and you know how much you have in it. You tell me what your best offer is the first time.
-(After I refused the first offer) Let me get my manager. - Fine but I won't answer any questions so no need to get them unless they have a lower price.
*Never answer the "If I can get it for $x, will you buy it"! - You tell me if you can get that price first and then I will answer you question.

-Please come back if you get a lower price so we can match it - No. I want your lowest price and if another place is lower then they get the deal.

I had one dealer negotiate price but then tried give me a fraction of what my trade was worth. I thanked him for his time and asked for my keys. Wouldn't give them to me (he wanted to keep negotiating) so I started speaking very loudly that he can go get my keys or I will call the police. He kept trying to sell - told him there was nothing more he could do except give me my keys to my car and I got louder and started to look for the manager's office. I got my keys and walked.

Truth be known, I enjoy negotiating price because I know how the game is played and I see the pain on their face when I use the tactics they torment the customer with against them.

[Brian 162]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

That's because they make money on the finance or lease contract.

Yep
Up here at some dealers if you pay cash the price increases $2-3,000 more. They want their taste for financing.

[cabmandone]

Maybe I just got spoiled for too long. Used to be, I'd call the local Ford dealership, tell the salesperson I want this car with these options. Call me when you have the employee "A" plan price. But since Ford hasn't really made a vehicle I like for several years, combined with reliability issues I've had with them, I've had to branch out.

[stealthn]

Good story, sounds like contract law in Canada.

My first and only new buying experience was buying a Ram 1500, found one on the lot that had everything I wanted, talked to the salesman, he gave me his best price, with all the incentives added. I said still too much, we danced, he got the manager they gave me another price, I said no. Then the “what price would get you into this truck today” line comes out? I said 3% over your invoice (and I want to see the invoice), they laughed and said their prices and discounts were lower than that. I said show me, the 3% was $2k cheaper than their offer. I bought it at that price.

[Superman]

You did a good job Dad (Nick) in several ways.

I notice many of you understand that for many people, buying a car is an emotional thing. They stumble onto a lot with a vague idea of what they might, maybe, I guess, want to drive. They fall in love with a car and the salesman has a great day.

The better method is to do your homework first, decide what vehicle you will buy, including options, then go find that vehicle.

[berettafan]

is it no longer a thing to just email several dealers for best price on xyz car/package? This is what I did on my VW bought this past summer. Seemed to work well. Hopefully didn't leave too much $$ on the table.

[speeder]

I hated the car sales world until I landed at the Porsche dealer where we treated people in a very straight forward manner and did not insult their intelligence or try to rob them. Previously, I had worked at a Honda dealer where I sold a woman a car, (can't remember if it was new or used), when the F&I office got through with her, she was going to be paying something like 13% APR. I think that the going rate was 7 or 8% at the time. The F&I office at a dealer is where they rally make their money, adding interest points onto their "buy rate" from a major bank and selling people worthless extended warranties for ridiculous marked-up prices, worthless paint coatings and other crap.

The F&I guy or gal is usually the biggest scumbag in the dealer, their job is also easy because the customer is so worn down after fighting with the salesman and negotiating a price on the vehicle that they just want to get it over with and go home. Psychologically speaking, they have also already bought the new car or truck and it's easy to sell them products and services to "protect" their new investment, which of course is the opposite of an investment.

Back to the woman buying the car...for some reason, I just could not let them do it this time. She was a large woman as I remember, a black nurse who worked such long hours that her feet were sore. She probably had good credit but like a lot of people, was not a sophisticated buyer when it came to credit purchases and was about to get fleeced for a couple of extra thousand over the life of the loan. I called her and educated her about credit and how dealership F&I offices work and how she could go to her own bank where she has an account and inquire about a car loan. I also told her that no matter what she signed in the F&I office, she could find her own financing and cancel the financing from the dealer.

For sure, I would have gotten fired for doing this if I got caught but IDGAF. I may not be a perfect person but I can't rip off working people. Most of that industry is so shady and it doesn't have to be that way, IMO. I've never understood why people need to lie to sell something. You meet some real characters in a dealership, some very good people and some bad. This goes for customers as well as employees. I found it fun at times and incredibly boring at others.

As for getting the best deal, if I was buying new now, I would try to research what the present market was on the piece I was buying, (not that difficult), and then just play it by ear at the dealer. How can you ever know for sure that you got, "the best deal?" How do you know that someone else would not have sold it for less? I'm all for price shopping, (researching, really), but sometimes there is more to a deal than just bottom line. Sometimes not.

[Dantilla]

A good dealer:

My dad was a Chevy guy.
Every couple years either buying a car for mom, or a new pickup for himself.
He bought several from the same guy. They discussed what options dad wanted, and then the salesman gave two numbers: "List price for that is $xxxx, I can sell it to you for $yyyy", which was always a substantial discount.
Done. No need to negotiate back and forth.

He was "Salesman of the Month" every month. I was at the parts counter late one afternoon, and chatted with him a bit, as other sales guys were leaving.
"Goodnight, Jerry"
"See ya tomorrow, Jerry"

He said being top sales every month is easy.
Most arrived early and twiddled their thumbs waiting for customers, then left the dealership around 5 pm. That's right when people start coming, right after work.
Jerry would get there late morning, and sometimes be the only one there in the evening.
That's when most of his sales closed.

Hard to find a good guy like that.
Instead of screwing people for the last nickel, why not build a list of repeat customers?

[Sooner or later]

The price they want for extended warranties is shocking. $10,000+

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

The price they want for extended warranties is shocking. $10,000+

For how long? And on what?

I got 3/36 mfr bumper to bumper on a 3 year old BMW with 40k on the clock for $2900 - from the F&I guy when I went to close the deal.

Was the only thing he sold me - or tried to sell me - and that was after I asked for a 2 year and he said her could do the 3 for $200 more. I've found higher end dealers in areas where the customer can count past 10 with their shoes still on to be less scummy than the local CJDR dealer (who is a piece of work).