The Latest SUV .....

[12own911]

Except for my VUE...

[osidak]

Originally posted by dd74
Was the Cayenne made to take into the woods? I think it exists to fill what was previously a void in Porsche's lineup. Porsche shouldn't be faulted for wanting a piece of the SUV pie, too.

I've seen a lot of them here in L.A. All-in-all, I think they're the best looking SUVs in comparison to the others on the road.

As for being made to take into the woods. According to the Porsche website at least Porsche thinks they made it for it



As for looks I think it is ugly as hell but then again there is only so much you can do to a box. It is still just a VW truck with a Porsche badge that has to answer the laws of physics.

[dd74]

Well, Dr. Osidak, when I think of the woods, I think of tree roots the size of which are found on redwoods, fallen logs, boulders, and rapidly-moving bodies of water - stuff, in short, where you would ordnarily be on horseback less so four tires.

To me, I'm not certain the Porsche has that acumen; and after paying the money they want for the vehicle, I'm not certain I'd drive it into an off-road scenario such as the one I described.

For what it's worth, I've never been off-roading in an SUV that didn't incur some sort of longstanding damage after its excursion away from pavement; if it did run properly afterwards, it sure squeaked and moaned a hell of a lot.

As far as ugly, I agree. No SUV that I know of has been given the title "pretty." Even Lamborghini's SUV is an ugly piece of machinery, while their cars remain fairly fetching. I'm only judging the Cayenne among its own brood. For that, it has a better look than a Dodge product or that horrid abomination called the Escalade.

[cegerer]

I know I'm talking to the wall here, but the service manager at my dealer recently showed me a whole bunch of snapshots he took at Porsche HQ on the muddy Cayenne off-road test track in Georgia. It was amazing what kind of terrain this thing was able to negotiate. He said they went thru stuff that he wouldn't even think of taking his 4WD Suburban thru. Lots of photos with only 2 or 3 tires in contact with the ground. The on-road performance is even better ...... trust me hahaha!

[oldE]

Cegerer,
Thats exactly what I'm talking about. You see these shiny money pits flogged by the press or by the distributers on 'demonstration days', but the guy who is serious about takin' it to the real dirty, bad country is thinking more about how the winch will mount rather than the leather seats. The SUV marketing thing is a campaign to get rubes to buy a persona of capability and adventure, and people line up for the things. I can hardly wait for gas in the US to go up to $6.00/gallon and watch the whole SUV market tank, big time. (Wait.. Did that sound harsh to you?)
Les

[osidak]

So dd74 if the Porsche is not capable of doing it then why build or buy it.

Yes the Cayenne will handle some mud and rough surfaces. Most sedans will do it as well. Why build a compromise vehicle if all it is going to be used for is to haul Soccer Moms to the mall. Porsche was a great sports car company.

Oh as great as you think the Cayenne is cegrerer the fact remains as it is still an over priced gussied up VW that must still abide by the laws of physics.

Now matter how you slice it the Cayenne is a Top heavy over weight slug that has in the eyes of many damaged Porsche's reputation and contrary to what you believe has watered down the brand.

I would have rather seen Porsche bought out and then introduce a SUV for at least then I could blame the new owners.

[thrown_hammer]

Just FYI my Mom has a Pinzgauer! Beast I tell ya, BEAST!

[cegerer]

"Yes the Cayenne will handle some mud and rough surfaces. Most sedans will do it as well. "

You can NOT be serious. You're letting your hate for Cayennes cloud your reasoning, me thinks Maybe I'll borrow the photos and scan them. It is some incredible stuff. And I've owned 4WD or AWD vehicles only for almost 20 years (Jeeps, Subarus, GMC trucks, Isuzu Troopers, etc.).

Will most buyers use these capabilities? Of course not. But then again, our 911's are capable of extreme performance also - but very, very few of us use those capabilities ..... it's just comforting to know you have those capabilities 'in reserve', be it a 911 or a Cayenne.

-- Curt, official PP Cayenne Whipping Boy

Shawn - are you serious?

[osidak]

Slight exagerations Curt but my point is a sedan can handle what ever 99% of Cayenne drivers will actually throw at it.

As for the demo's they are just that. Do you think Porsche would demo their new VW in a way it would look bad. I have seen photos where the Cayenne is so far stuck they leave it for dead (ok they did come back for it)

[thrown_hammer]

Curt,
Yeah they have an Austrian 1974 Pinzi. Its a 4-wheel soft top. That thing has INSANE off-road capabilities. I can get some pics if you want. You should drive the Cayenne down and we could go Muddin'.

[cegerer]

"my point is a sedan can handle what ever 99% of Cayenne drivers will actually throw at it."

If you're talking an AWD sedan, agreed!

I make take ya up on that Shawn! Would like to see some pics for sure.

[osidak]

For what 99% of Cayenne drivers will do with their slugs I would be willing to bet my Jetta could handle it.

For the rest I would rather take a AWD wagon (Subaru Outback, Audi All Road, Volvo AWD wagon) and get almost double the fuel mileage and as a bonus I would be less prone to end up on my roof in an emergency lane change.

[thrown_hammer]

Here ya go Curt. A winter shot and a summer shot with the "A/C" on full blast.

[cegerer]

Awesome Shawn!! Do they drive it on the road? And what kind of top speed does that thing do? -- Curt

[thrown_hammer]

They drive it all the time. It will run about 70 top speed. VERY loud though. Straight cut gears and such.

[cegerer]

Thought all you SUV-lovers out there might get a kick out this one too .....

http://www.panteracars.com/simbir1.html

Yeah, that's right. A De Tomaso 'Pantera' SUV. Read on if you're brave ....

[osidak]

Pantera - Didn't they make cars back in the 70's and early eighties.... The SUV sure must have helped.... Wonder if the Cayenne oops I mean Touareg will do the same

[MFAFF]

Osi,

If you take your reasoning about using a pretty simple car to do 99% of what owners would throw at a Cayenne, what do you say about your 911?

After all plenty of 'cheaper' cars, like a Corvette , WRX etc can do 99% of what you do in the 911 on the road, as opposed to track or a/x use....

So do you drive it for the brand? I don't think so......

Th Cayenne will inevtiably not be used to its full potential, which from reading comparative reports against Range Rovers and the like including Land Cruisers large and small, is pretty amazing for a car.

Granted Pinz Gs and Unimogs are better ATV but having driven a Pinz for several '000Ks I would not call it a good road vehicle at least not for 99% of the use I put my road car to

I think tha the real reason the Cayenne is disliked is less that its an 'SUV' and more that it has taken the resources of Porsche off racing, which for better or for worse we feel is a vital part of the Porsche marque.......
It has contributed hugely to maintianing P independent but since we have not yet seen signs of a factory return to racing the divertion of resources looks more and more permanent....sadly resting Ps brand value on aging laurels.

[cegerer]

JUst a thought: Is it any less correct to say the Toureg is a de-tuned version of the Cayenne? I'll bet that's what most VW owners say, 'this is really a Porsche, with a few different parts ......' Neither would exist without the other. VW didn't design it - VW and Porsche designed it.

Driving differences aside, the Toureg I looked at was $50k. Some say that's a bargain because it's $15k less than the similar Cayenne. I said it was $15k MORE than I was willing to pay for any vehicle with a VW badge. I'm a VW fan and currently own 2 Jettas as company vehicles for employees, but I can't bring myself to go over the $35k threshold for a VW ......

[osidak]

Mfaff - Yes you are correct that there are cars that will best porsches on the road for a far cheaper price. If you hae read all my comments you would see that I have mentioned that myself.

I own a 1978 911. It was much cheaper than every car you mentioned in its place. It is my toy and I gain satisfaction from the fact it is not an easy car to drive fast, the sounds it makes and I know the car could be dropped on a track and do pretty well in its class.

The newer 911's reatain the unique look some people desire but is becoming more and more like other cars on the market. The same level of performance can be had in the $30K WRX STi. In 1978 there where very few cars that could match the 911. Factor is the cost difference and I doubt there was any car that could match it.

Again people argue the Cayenne was needed to save Porsche to keep them independent. What would VW have done that Porsche has not already? SUV sure through a Porsche badge on the Touareg.... Sedan the Porsche badge should fit on the Phaeton.

You think Porsche will develope a sedan from scratch?

The core business that got them where they are is sports cars, and racing them to build their reputations and improve the brand. They don't race any more, their sports are getting fat and are no longer as trackable.

Good thing Porsche cashed in on the SUV craze.

Oh before you mention the CGT how many people will be able to buy those? The GT2 and GT3 both limited production cars not really meant for the Porsche buying masses.

We get the V6 VW/Cayenne's and 996's (except the turbo) that will destroy an engine due to oil starvation if raced.

Sure glad they stayed independent.