Israel

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mr_Wizard
Not true, the US was capable of defeating Japan in WWII without the use of the atomic bomb but the price that would be paid in the lives of our soldiers during an invasion of the main island of Japan would have been to high. That is the reason the bomb(s) were dropped.

No, that's not true either. The US government had already beaten Japan, and the Japanese offered surrender in the Spring of 1945, with the caveat that the emperor not be put on trial, but left on the throne. Truman said, "unconditional surrender", and when the Japanese refused, Truman commited the ultimate war crime of nuking civilians.

It's a travesty that has yet to be equaled in the history of mankind.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Anti-semite...hyperbole?...NO.

Discussing Israeli lawlessness is not anti-Semitism, but like many who are advocates for the Israeli Lobby*, you play that card constantly, to no avail.

*The Israeli Lobby

[Eric 951]

Originally posted by fastpat
No, that's not true either. The US government had already beaten Japan, and the Japanese offered surrender in the Spring of 1945, with the caveat that the emperor not be put on trial, but left on the throne. Truman said, "unconditional surrender", and when the Japanese refused, Truman commited the ultimate war crime of nuking civilians.

It's a travesty that has yet to be equaled in the history of mankind.

So Japan offered to surrender on their own terms after being the aggressor at the start of the war, refusing unconditional surrender.

They brought the bombs upon themselves.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Eric 951
So Japan offered to surrender on their own terms after being the aggressor at the start of the war, refusing unconditional surrender.

They brought the bombs upon themselves.

There are not and never have been excuses for war crimes commited by the US government.

And no, you have no arguments in support of US government war crimes that matter.

[Mulhollanddose]

[Mulhollanddose]

It is time for the Islamic aggressors to end their occupation of ancient Israel. It is time for those falsely called "Palestinian" to go back to the countries of their ancestors.

[Mr_Wizard]

Originally posted by fastpat
The cold hard facts are that they hold title to the land the Israeli's are stealing with not just tacit, but overt approval and with monetary support of the US government, and that is wrong.

And if the US Government was supporting the people of Palestine instead of Israel you would be against that. You would be calling the US government criminals again. We all know Pat, SECEDE, IMPEACH BUSH, blah blah blah!!!!

[Mr_Wizard]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fastpat
Truman said, "unconditional surrender"

What part of unconditional surrender don't you understand?

[Eric 951]

Originally posted by fastpat
There are not and never have been excuses for war crimes commited by the US government.

And no, you have no arguments in support of US government war crimes that matter.

Obviously it wasn't viewed as a "war crime" at the time. It would have been absolutely comical to have seen you pressing that angle during V-J day celebrations.

[911boost]

I have had the pleasure of meeting a couple of Israeli Police and anti-terror personell, and I for one would never want to fuc$ with them.

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by fastpat
There are not and never have been excuses for war crimes commited by the US government.

And no, you have no arguments in support of US government war crimes that matter.

Ummm, Pat your true motive is showing again...........

Just like your quote in my signature.........

[1967 R50/2]

Originally posted by fastpat
No, that's not true either. The US government had already beaten Japan, and the Japanese offered surrender in the Spring of 1945, with the caveat that the emperor not be put on trial, but left on the throne. Truman said, "unconditional surrender", and when the Japanese refused, Truman commited the ultimate war crime of nuking civilians.

This is false. The offer was put forward after the dropping of the NAGASAKI bomb. August 10th. Not in the spring.

In fact, only two weeks before, Suzuki had called the Potsdam Declaration rubbish.

On August 14th, the Allies confirmed that Hirohito could keep his throne and Japan surrendered.

[Mulhollanddose]

neo-con Jew-lover (redundant, I know)

[artplumber]

Originally posted by Noah
....That's just a quick stream-of-consciousness recap. Enjoy, Pat.

LOL

[on-ramp]

how can U ever justify throwing Nukes over Nagasaki and Hiroshima and killing over 100K innocent civilians?

I guess the same way Bush justifies the fraud that is the war in Iraq.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mr_Wizard
And if the US Government was supporting the people of Palestine instead of Israel you would be against that. You would be calling the US government criminals again. We all know Pat, SECEDE, IMPEACH BUSH, blah blah blah!!!!

Since I stated above that I would end ALL foreign aid to the mideast, your childish diatribe above impressed no one.

[livi]

Slightly of topic, but here is a question:

All threw history the Jewish people has been burdened with a somewhat less favorable reputation.

Some people claim - without being antisemitic per se - that the root lies within their own holy texts claiming the Jews are the chosen ones - a higher, better bread. A self rightness putting them selves above other people. A relevant ground for hatred in many peoples eyes.

Others just point out them being too slick for their own good.

Is there any truth in this or is it just traditional slandering ?

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Eric 951
Obviously it wasn't viewed as a "war crime" at the time. It would have been absolutely comical to have seen you pressing that angle during V-J day celebrations.

Actually, it was viewed as a war crime at the time, but bully boys, which apparently you are (typical yankee behavior by the way), prevailed.

Not only was it viewed as a war crime, it was opposed by many in the US government military hierachy.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Noah
Please explain this more...

(BTW, it's spelled "Israel," not "Isreal" -- you're quite the expert, Pat.)

Noah, when I need an idiot lesson, you're always here to provide it.

See the map I posted in this thread. That is the land granted to Israel in 1948, as it was a good part of it was stolen already even then.

You are familiar with the "purchase" of land from absentee Turkish landlords correct? Land stolen by them during their occupation of Palestine?

Why do I get this notion that you know this, Noah, but want me to talk about it anyway? Going to produce the anti-Semitic card like Mul?

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Noah
I know this is kind of pointless, but what the heck. Here's a quick history of Israel and the Middle East, for those who believe that Israel "stole" land from the Palestinians.

For about 500 years, the Ottoman Empire ruled the Middle East. The Ottoman Empire was dissolved in the aftermath of World War 1, and France and Britain became the colonial powers in the Middle East. Algeria, Morocco, Syria, and Lebanon became French colonies, and Transjordan (what is today Israel and Jordan), Egypt, and Iraq became British colonies. The Arabian peninsula was largely autonomous, ruled by Ibn Saud.

Starting in the late 1800's, successive waves of Jews immigrated to what is today the state of Israel, especially in the years before World War 2 when the prescient Jews fled the ensuing genocide. During the second world war, the Middle East Arabs openly sided with Hitler, mostly because of their shared hatred of Jews (the Koran is positively obsessed with the Jews, if anyone was wondering where the Muslim hatred of Jews comes from...). Anyway, the Mufti of Jerusalem, in between inciting riots that killed thousands of Jews, visited Berlin and was greeted as a Jew-killing hero by Hitler. Meanwhile, thousands of Jews living in Israel were desperately trying to let the British Mandate government allow them to enlist in the British army to fight Hitler, even as the Arabs were arming themselves for the hoped-for Axis swoop into the Middle East, where the Final Solution could be continued.

At the end of WW2, there were several hundred thousands of Jewish refugees from Europe, mostly Holocaust survivors. They wanted to come to Israel, but the British Mandate government restricted immigration. There was various Jewish-Arab-British violence, and finally the British relented and decided to allow a vote in the United Nations on whether to allow partition of Israel between two equal states, Arab and Jewish. The UN and the British approved the partition plan, and in May 1948 Israel declared statehood. The next day several Arab armies invaded, with the explicitly-stated goal of killing every Jew in Israel. But the Jews repulsed the attacks.

This is where the Palestinian "refugee" crisis comes from -- mostly from the Arabs who fled their villages to allow the incoming Arab armies to slaughter the Jews more freely. Until 1967, there was no West Bank or Gaza Strip -- there was Jordanian territory (the West Bank) and Egyptian territory (the Gaza Strip). When Israel was once again invaded by several Arab armies in 1967 from those two areas, it occupied the areas to protect itself (of course, Gaza is unoccupied as of last summer, and we see what that's gotten everyone...). The "Palestinians" never were a nation or a people. They're Middle East Arabs. And Gaza and the West Bank were Egypt and Jordan until 1967.

That's just a quick stream-of-consciousness recap. Enjoy, Pat.

Great, you've repeated the Israeli version, but left out a couple of key points.

Number one, where did the immigrating Jews get the land in Palestine during the late 19th century Zionist movement?

Where did they get the land after World War One?