Israel

[Mr_Wizard]

Originally posted by 125shifter
We were unable to defeat Japan in WW2 until Truman said enough and did what would be unthinkable today.

Not true, the US was capable of defeating Japan in WWII without the use of the atomic bomb but the price that would be paid in the lives of our soldiers during an invasion of the main island of Japan would have been to high. That is the reason the bomb(s) were dropped.

[Moneyguy1]

Mr. Wizard: (Bill)

Thank you for a cogent answer. Any historian worth his (or her) salt will verify what the projected loss of life would have been (both allied and Japanese) as well as the socio-political ramifications of the Soviet Union taking over part of Japan (a worry on both sides and one of the deciding factors the Japanese took into account)

[singpilot]

I spend a lot of time in TelAviv.

If you leave the sliding window open at night in the hotel we stay in (very tight security, and I am usually above the 10th floor), you can hear the incoming mortars hitting up in the hills. Couple of miles away.

It's time. The Palestinians have had a chance at peace, at forming their own government, at establishing a homeland. The government cannot control the radicals, the guerilla war has moved out of Gaza, and the Israelis are not to be f-ed with when it comes to their homeland, won in several one sided conflicts. Does no one remember the six-day war?

I predict a massive strike once again to refresh the memories of the insurgents of what a no-nonsense military force is capable of.

It's time.

[David]

Originally posted by Mr_Wizard
Not true, the US was capable of defeating Japan in WWII without the use of the atomic bomb but the price that would be paid in the lives of our soldiers during an invasion of the main island of Japan would have been to high. That is the reason the bomb(s) were dropped.

I stand corrected. I realize there was another option in Japan.

I'm not saying Israel should use nukes, but I do think they are now justified in using overwhelming force.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by 125shifter
I'm surprised the current Israeli/Palestinian issue is not being discussed. This is major *****!!!

It looks to me like Israel is finally saying enough.

I'd have to agree.

If you are a civilized country and these terrorist acts are being committed against you (and I don't mean in some obscure way like Saddam against US) you need to use overwhelming force to end it. I think after diplomacy has run it's course (40 years should be enough) it's time to end it. I'm talking about you kill one of us, we kill 10 of you. Kill 10, we kill 100. I'm talking about total victory NOW.

I think the slogan when I was in college was PEACE NOW. Well that didn't work. I'm not Jewish, but I'm tired of it!

The country with the highest number of terrorist attacks against other countries is Israel. They're currently stealing even more Palestinian land than they've done over the last 40 years by walling off the West Bank, with titled Palestinian land on the Israeli side. Then, the Israeli's are sending at least part of the bill for the wall to the US government who is expected to pay for it.

See this reference for why the US government will pay:
Prophets in Their Own Land--How to go from respected academic to anti-Semite - in one simple step.

[coldstart]

Leave it to fastpat to come through. The Jews are stealing all the land! The Arabs will have no where to live!!!



What really gets my goat is that Palestinians are living in refugee camps in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, etc. FIFTY-EIGHT years after the 1948 war. They ran off as all the Arab countries were invading Israel.

All the Arab countries claim that Israel treats the Palestinians so horribly, yet they have had them live in poor refugee camps with no access to education or ways of empowering themselves. If they cared about their Palestinian brothers, they would have antied up and encompassed the refugees into their society (like Israel did with the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Irani Jews who were booted out of their homes, not to mention the Ethopians and Russian Jews). The Arabs claim to do everything in the name of their Palestinian brothers except the obvious.......

[billyboy]

They're currently stealing even more Palestinian land than they've done over the last 40 years

You can't steal what is rightfully yours.

[coldstart]

Actually, these three maps give a better context. Have to hate the facts....

[fastpat]

Originally posted by billyboy
You can't steal what is rightfully yours.

It's not "rightfully" Israeli land, and never was. You may be conflating ancient Israel, with the modern state of Israel founded in 1948, but the two are not and never have been the same thing.

Edit: Here's the legal Israeli boundary. It is still in effect today, and is routinely ignored by Israel in their quest for more Palestinian land.

[coldstart]

Here is a snippet of the Jewish propaganda regarding Israel:

Israel is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, surrounded by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 times her size, 60 times her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries?

The surrounding 22 Arab countries are 640 times larger than tiny Israel yet they expect Israel to turn over all the West Bank, Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and half of Jerusalem... territory they lost after they started the 1967 war!

This goes with the map above:

a. 3 miles wide here
b. Golan Heights
c. Sea of Galilee
d. Jordan River... Sea of Galilee
to Dead Sea
e. 1967 "Green Line"... the 1949
armistice lines separating
Israel from its heartland of
Judea-Samaria when Jordanian
forces illegally annexed it. After the
1967 Arab-Israeli war, Israel
regained that land... at which time
the world began referring to Judea and
Samaria as the "West Bank" in order to
try to erase any Jewish connection
to this historically Jewish land!
f. 9 miles wide here
g. Tel Aviv
h. Jerusalem
i. Dead Sea
j. Gaza Strip: 5 miles x 25 miles

[singpilot]

Originally posted by singpilot
Does no one remember the six-day war?

Clearly not.

[billyboy]

[IMG]liberte.newmail.ru/ images/maps/map-france.jpg[/IMG]

coldstart

You forgot here too!

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by 1967 R50/2
If 40% of US males were unemployed, we'd have lots of radicals here too.

This is a false theory. The most radical elements of fundamentalist Islam are from their middle class and upper classes...Sheer numbers, you are obviously correct, but it has nothing to do with poverty or unemployment.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by coldstart
Leave it to fastpat to come through. The Jews are stealing all the land! The Arabs will have no where to live!!!

What really gets my goat is that Palestinians are living in refugee camps in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, etc. FIFTY-EIGHT years after the 1948 war. They ran off as all the Arab countries were invading Israel.

All the Arab countries claim that Israel treats the Palestinians so horribly, yet they have had them live in poor refugee camps with no access to education or ways of empowering themselves. If they cared about their Palestinian brothers, they would have antied up and encompassed the refugees into their society (like Israel did with the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Irani Jews who were booted out of their homes, not to mention the Ethopians and Russian Jews). The Arabs claim to do everything in the name of their Palestinian brothers except the obvious.......

Interesting perhaps, but irrelevant as to whether or not it's lawful for the Israeli's to steal Palestinian land, it clearly is not.

Israel should be forced to their lawful borders, but no one is interested in doing that, except the other arab countries, and other Islamic countries.

I don't advocate the US government force Israel to do anything, I do advocate no foreign aid of any kind be given to Israel, or any other mideast country. It's way passed time to stop this travesty.

Reference: The Israeli Lobby by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by coldstart
What really gets my goat is that Palestinians are living in refugee camps in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, etc. FIFTY-EIGHT years after the 1948 war. They ran off as all the Arab countries were invading Israel.

Couple quick points for clarification:

- The "Palestinians" are simply Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians. The region named Palestine (to spite the Jews by the Romans) was sparsely populated at best.

- Refugee camps from 1948?...Wouldn't that mean a majority of the refugees are dead? Surely the remaining few would be assimilated by the "peaceful religion."

[Mr_Wizard]

Originally posted by 125shifter
I'm not saying Israel should use nukes, but I do think they are now justified in using overwhelming force.

I diffenetly don't think that Israel will use nukes against Palenstine, and yes an overwhelming force is needed to show the Palestine people what happens when you elect a terrorist government. I don't think they would loose any sleep over using nukes against Syria, or Iran if the opportunity ever arose. Plus they actually have the balls to use them.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Couple quick points for clarification:

- The "Palestinians" are simply Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians. The region named Palestine (to spite the Jews by the Romans) was sparsely populated at best.

What the Palestinians do or do not call themselves is none of your, or my, business. They're entitled to call themselves whatever they wish.

The cold hard facts are that they hold title to the land the Israeli's are stealing with not just tacit, but overt approval and with monetary support of the US government, and that is wrong.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mr_Wizard
I diffenetly don't think that Israel will use nukes against Palenstine, and yes an overwhelming force is needed to show the Palestine people what happens when you elect a terrorist government. I don't think they would loose any sleep over using nukes against Syria, or Iran if the opportunity ever arose. Plus they actually have the balls to use them.

Again, what do you expect the Palestinians to do when Isreal has stolen so much of their land? Sit idly by and let it go?

[Mulhollanddose]

Anti-semite...hyperbole?...NO.

[Eric 951]

Originally posted by fastpat
Again, what do you expect the Palestinians to do when Isreal has stolen so much of their land? Sit idly by and let it go?

Nah...let the Palestinians fight for it and get their asses handed to them.....again.