Israel

[fastpat]

Originally posted by 1967 R50/2
This is false. The offer was put forward after the dropping of the NAGASAKI bomb. August 10th. Not in the spring.

In fact, only two weeks before, Suzuki had called the Potsdam Declaration rubbish.

On August 14th, the Allies confirmed that Hirohito could keep his throne and Japan surrendered.

1. May 1945 - Truman receives reports that Japan is ready to surrender if "unconditional surrender" is dropped (re: the emperor) - "Why We Nuked Japan" by Gar Alperovitz, article in Technology Review, 1990.

2.

"my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking the world op0inion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. ...It wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing" General Dwight D. Eisenhour.

3.

"The use of this barbaric weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons. My own feeling was that, in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Age. I was not taught to make war in that fashio, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children." Fleet Admiral Daniel Leahy, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, US Navy.

[Howard Agency]

Originally posted by livi
Slightly of topic, but here is a question:

All threw history the Jewish people has been burdened with a somewhat less favorable reputation.

Some people claim - without being antisemitic per se - that the root lies within their own holy texts claiming the Jews are the chosen ones - a higher, better bread. A self rightness putting them selves above other people. A relevant ground for hatred in many peoples eyes.

Others just point out them being too slick for their own good.

Is there any truth in this or is it just traditional slandering ?

Livi, I assume since you are reasonable and well educated that these views are not yours, just 'traditional slandering'.

Many of those those same 'slanderers' believe that light skinned northern people are smarter and more industrious than dark skinned folks from the south. Tough call.

It's not like things we all know: French are great cooks and lousy engineers, Germans can't cook but make perfect engineers.

[fastpat]

Interesting to see how this topic brings out Paste's dormant love for the United Nations and international law.

Perhaps you've missed it, but as I've stated many times I'd like to see a wrecking ball taken to the UN buildings within the US, and salt sown on the ground so that nothing will grow there for a long time.

However, since the US government signed a treaty joining the UN and frequently cites it's resolutions to enable activities, holding the US government to ALL relevant resolutions isn't unreasonable. Currently one of the most frequent violators of UN resolutions is Israel, making them a criminal state under US law.

Ponder that, genius.

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by fastpat
However, since the US government signed a treaty joining the UN and frequently cites it's resolutions to enable activities, holding the US government to ALL relevant resolutions isn't unreasonable.

Bravo Sierra...you want it both ways, at your choosing.

Only you can hate government and then buttress punitive sancations blessed by the very same governmental body you deplore.

[Mr_Wizard]

Originally posted by fastpat
your childish diatribe above impressed no one.

Get over yourself Patsy. It's a good thing that us "Yankees" are moving to the south. Your good ol boy mentality is slowly but surely disappearing. I have an idea, Patsy how bout you run for President in 08. I would love to hear you spew your anti-semitic, racist, irrational views in front of the whole country. Maybe then you will see just how off base you are, in other words what alcoholics call a moment of clarity

[1967 R50/2]

Originally posted by fastpat
1. May 1945 - Truman receives reports that Japan is ready to surrender if "unconditional surrender" is dropped (re: the emperor) - "Why We Nuked Japan" by Gar Alperovitz, article in Technology Review, 1990.
.

Neither of these quotes are by the Japanese Prime minister, Tojo, or the Emperor or anyone in a position to make a surrender offer. Nor do they say that an offer of surrender was made in the spring as you maintain. After-the-fact opinions given by generals in no way changes the fact that NO SURRENDER OFFER WAS MADE.

It is a fact that no such offer was made and your first statement was incorrect as is your persistance in maintaining that position above.

[JSDSKI]

Fail to see how the "eye for an eye" attack/counter attack has aided either side. They've been doing this to each other since 1948 to no benefit. Israel unsecured. Palestine without a real state.

Same thing is true throughout history (with the obvious exception of wars in response to all out attacks from governments- WWI & II) Irish and British, Christian and Jew, Protestant and Catholic, Hindu and Muslim, Athens and Sparta, Norman and Saxon - the list is endless. Tit for tat neighbor hatred and strife benefits only those who seek power and sell arms. Actual resolution only comes with exhaustion of people and resources.

Given the passionate level of discourse in these threads, I am certain all of you would quietly and peacefully accept the reality of occupation on your forefathers land by a foreign culture with serene grace. And don't use that tripe that "it wasn't a real country, they didn't have a flag, it's just a bunch of Arabs". It was and is as real to them as if your grandfather's ranch had been taken by Federally mandated eminent domain.

This is exactly what the Christian movement preaches against and for obvious good reason. Ethics and morality aside - it is not pragmatic or successful.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally posted by Howard Agency
Livi, I assume since you are reasonable and well educated that these views are not yours, just 'traditional slandering'.

Many of those those same 'slanderers' believe that light skinned northern people are smarter and more industrious than dark skinned folks from the south. Tough call.

It's not like things we all know: French are great cooks and lousy engineers, Germans can't cook but make perfect engineers.

Renault seems to be kicking some serious ass in F1 right now though. . .

[Porsche-O-Phile]

To those that claimed earlier that religion has nothing to do with this:

Israel's claim to the "holy land" is rooted in religious history. They believe the land was given to them by their god.

Let me ask this: If I were to barge into your living room and claim "my god says this is my land, I'm entitled to it and I'm staying here and I don't care if you don't like it because I place the word of my god before yours" wouldn't you be the least bit resentful? Want to kick me out? By force/violence if necessary? How about after a few days? Months? Years?

You see the point?

It's classic manipulation of religion to justify oppression and rationalize behavior/action that would otherwise be considered immoral or inappropriate.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Seahawk
Bravo Sierra...you want it both ways, at your choosing.

Only you can hate government and then buttress punitive sancations blessed by the very same governmental body you deplore.

Quite the contrary, I don't want it any "way at all", I want the US government out of the UN in toto, as one more tool to diminish it.

As long as the Bush dynasty, Trilateralists all, are in power that not likely to occur. However, as I state, it's the height of hypocracy to allow the US government to pick and choose the UN resolutions it likes, and to ignore others.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by Seahawk
Bravo Sierra...you want it both ways, at your choosing.

Only you can hate government and then buttress punitive sancations blessed by the very same governmental body you deplore.

I have been beating Patsy over the head with this for months, even since he started his lewrockwell off-topic campaign here at Pelican...I have roundly dismantled him regarding Article VI. His contention is that we are bound by UN Treaty, to whatever whim that collection of corrupt nations sees fit to decree. He overlooks (only because it suits his objectives) the obvious fact that in no way were the Framers' intents to allow such treaty if that treaty violates or disallows protections of the Constitution.

Patsy appears to be a strict Constitutional constructionist, until he sees fit to violate that Constitution, and they he becomes an Internationalist blue-helmet wearing pansy.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mr_Wizard
Get over yourself Patsy. It's a good thing that us "Yankees" are moving to the south. Your good ol boy mentality is slowly but surely disappearing. I have an idea, Patsy how bout you run for President in 08. I would love to hear you spew your anti-semitic, racist, irrational views in front of the whole country. Maybe then you will see just how off base you are, in other words what alcoholics call a moment of clarity

That would be difficult for at least two reasons. First, I don't have anti-Semnitic views, nor racist views, nor irrational views. And, second, I'd hardly run for a US government office since I'd like very much for it to be dissolved.

As for yankees moving south, they've been doing that ever since we began to use air conditioners in homes here, hasn't been a significant factor, and isn't likely to be in the future.

Y'all are waaaay too effete.

[on-ramp]

didn't the Jews crucify God's son 2,000 years ago?....boy, did they pick the wrong man.

perhaps this is revenge time.

killing for religion, when will Earthlings learn.....

[Mulhollanddose]

Killing in the name of secularism has, to-date, been a greater source of evil...On a rational scale it seems obvious that, if we want the closest thing to peace and utopia, we should vote for Christians, legislate Christianity be taught in the public schools (until they are abolished, as they are un-Constitutional), and take out all hints of evil socialism or anything similar to Hitler or Stalin's strains of totalitarianism (nearly all of the Democrat platform).

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Killing in the name of secularism has, to-date, been a greater source of evil...On a rational scale it seems obvious that, if we want the closest thing to peace and utopia, we should vote for Christians, legislate Christianity be taught in the public schools (until they are abolished, as they are un-Constitutional), and take out all hints of evil socialism or anything similar to Hitler or Stalin's strains of totalitarianism (nearly all of the Democrat platform).

Force for peace be damned.

[john70t]

Heres a different perspective: population and environment.

There's what, 7 miles across and how many miles long? And with how much actual farm-able land? Add to the mix the increase of soil salt buildup and the removal of plant/tree water retentioners and there's very little to feed anyone.
Areas of the middle east (like the tigris/uphrates valley in Iraq) used to be agricultural/economic mecas and lushly forested in the time of the Bible.

Now add the high Palestinian per-capita birthrate, and the international importation of Jewish decendants to counter them in this political/religeous/economic fracus and the problem just gets worse.

[john70t]

Oh yeah, the Jews deserve a homeland (which happens to be very small geographically).

[RoninLB]

great homeland with no oil, no natural resources, and no water.

[billyboy]

didn't the Jews crucify God's son 2,000 years ago?....

No, actually, it was the Jews and the Gentiles( all of mankind). Jesus allowed his own crucifixion. That was the only means to defeat Satan forever.

Let me ask this: If I were to barge into your living room and claim "my god says this is my land, I'm entitled to it and I'm staying here and I don't care if you don't like it because I place the word of my god before yours" wouldn't you be the least bit resentful? Want to kick me out? By force/violence if necessary? How about after a few days? Months? Years

This is reasoning that is based on a skewed world view that fails to include/acknowledge God.

[sand_man]

Originally posted by Noah
Uh, they bought it and cultivated it.

Just curious...bought it from whom?