Predictions for Tonight - Page 4

stevepaa · 11-07-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m21sniper
[
Again, Socialists are evil...and a mere step removed from full fledged communists. [/B]

troll, good bye.

m21sniper · 03:37 PM

Hmmmm, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

USSR, communists- socialists. If you like i can provide you with links to some scholarly writings that outline the overall similarities of the two systems.(it couldnt be that you simply didnt know that the two are first cousins of political ideology, could it?)

PS: nice job casting me with an obviously ludicris label because i dare disagree with you. Now THAT is liberalism in action.

LOL, hippies...

Racerbvd · Racerbvd's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by stevepaa
like the just end to WW1 brought about WW2?

Just ask Pat about the war northern aggression!

Like you think the Iraq war will get a just result? By whose standards?

Fix it for you

stevepaa · 11-07-2006, 03:41 PM

Thanks Byron, that is better phrasing from Pat's perspective.

m21sniper · 11-07-2006, 03:44 PM

The ultimate irony is that you feel war cannot produce a just result, but yet you have a tool of megadeath as your avatar.

Superman · 11-07-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sammyg2
Sup, bad move.
Comparing Jesus to a socialist? Not right.
The government should not be in the charity business, private citizens should. that was what Jesus was preaching, that people should take care of one another. Government had nothing to do with it.
I absolutely hate having my hard earned money taken from me against my will so it can go to the undeserving or be wasted on some other stupid program.

But....... my wife and I voluntarily rack up about $8,000 a year in donations to our church. Much of that money goes to feed the hungry, clothe those who need clothes, help some members of our community pay bills when they fall behind, we even built a school and house for a pastor in mexico. That's what Jesus was talking about.

You see there is a difference. It should be my decision, not someone else's.
Charity begins at home and not at the polling booth.

Not so fast, Sammy. Greed is considered good in my country, and folks get really emotional when someone proposes limits. You did. I understand your fairly thin distinction between individuals making charitable decisions and groups of individuals making charitable decisions (like the citizens of a........oh let's see.....a COUNTRY), and I somewhat agree with it......kinda. But your quick and emotional decision to declare my analogy as "bad" is off target. Jesus had a following. A fairly large one. And at times, wealthy people were inclined to join. Followers were consistently asked to share their resources with the group. Not just a little at a time. To join this group, you placed your wealth in the collection basket as you entered. So charity, in Jesus' original Christian community......was mandatory and administered by the group. Just like a tax. With a tax rate of 100%. He was not flexible on this one.

So, no. I think this "charity should be an individual decision so that my million-dollar portfolio remain untouched by the people who would give portions of it to the needy without my okay.........."

......is bull****.

stevepaa · 11-07-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m21sniper
Hmmmm, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

USSR, communists- socialists. If you like i can provide you with links to some scholarly writings that outline the overall similarities of the two systems.(it couldnt be that you simply didnt know that the two are first cousins of political ideology, could it?)

PS: nice job casting me with an obviously ludicris label because i dare disagree with you. Now THAT is liberalism in action.

LOL, hippies...

It's not that you disagree. It's that you have so much to learn.

"Hippies", you have no clue. Most hippies are entrepeneurs, small business operators.

The civil war was not about slavery.

There is probability and statistics to the normal curve of your abilities and you think you did it all on your own. Pulled yourself up by your boot straps did you. So you think everyone can do it?

There have been so few just wars with just ends and you think it was common place.

Your simplistic view is something Ann Coulter would be proud of.

Christian commune living is of the same ilk as socialism and is just as distant from communism as practiced by the former USSR.

m21sniper · 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stevepaa
It's not that you disagree. It's that you have so much to learn.

LOL!

From you i bet, right?

Quote:

"Hippies", you have no clue. Most hippies are entrepeneurs, small business operators.

Are they? "Most"? Can you statistically prove this?

Cause i suspect that most real real live hippies from the sixties are junkies, convicts, mental patients, and financial failures.

Oh, and college professors and trial lawyers.

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The civil war was not about slavery.

The civil war was about a lot of things, one of them was slavery. An indisputable fact.

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There is probability and statistics to the normal curve of your abilities and you think you did it all on your own. Pulled yourself up by your boot straps did you. So you think everyone can do it?

Yes i did, and yes, i do.

The probability of statistics is called "reality".

Some little frogs get eaten through no fault of their own...that's just nature. Sharks have to eat too, afterall.

But what i get a chuckle out of is that you feel it's ok to take someone else's money, irregardless of their own situation, and use it to finance the failed, the vast majority of whom are wallowing in their own self-inflicted conundrums.

Quote:

There have been so few just wars with just ends and you think it was common place.

That was not what was at issue.

What was at issue was the question of "can war produce a just result?"

So far, you have dodged around that question at length.

So....what say you sir?

Quote:

Your simplistic view is something Ann Coulter would be proud of. .

And your falsely-complex view is one Jesse Jackson would be equally proud of.

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Christian commune living is of the same ilk as socialism and is just as distant from communism as practiced by the former USSR. [/B]

I wouldnt know anything about Xtian commune living, i am not a christian, and they do not try to usurp my monies to subsidize their societal failures.

But the fact remains unchanged that Socialism and Communism are first cousins.

BTW, i'd thought the "Bye Troll" indicated you'd surrendered?

Well, it's good to see you lefties have a LITTLE fight in ya anyway.

skipdup · 11-07-2006, 04:18 PM

Wow. This is a first. Jesus, the tax collector. Wow.

m21sniper · 11-07-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superman
[B]Not so fast, Sammy. Greed is considered good in my country, and folks get really emotional when someone proposes limits. You did. I understand your fairly thin distinction between individuals making charitable decisions and groups of individuals making charitable decisions (like the citizens of a........oh let's see.....a COUNTRY), and I somewhat agree with it......kinda.

The difference between charity and socialism is that one is voluntary, and the other is tyranny.

You have no right to regulate the "greed" of a succesful man any more than i have the right to tell you to Sell your Porsche to pay for foodstamps for those "less fortunate" than yourself.

It's the same exact thing. Because of socialism even lower middle class people(people that do not qualify for most forms of aid) that would otherwise be able to better care for their families and themselves have to go without so that the weak and lazy can be provided for.

It has nothing to do with TAKING(cause that's what you're doing- STEALING) from the rich, the rich have so much they can barely tell a diference.(though to me their money is still their own).

This is about TAKING money off the middle class, people that DO suffer a poorer lifestyle because of high taxes that do not benefit them or their families directly.

Socialism is no more than a touchy feely liberal denial of reality. And lord knows, liberals love to live in a state of denial.

Gun control is a perfect example of that. The most crime ridden sections of the US are also the ones where it is literally impossible to legally own a handgun.

Emphasis on legally.

Hugh R · 11-07-2006, 04:40 PM

A liberal to me is someone who has great plans for solving some societal ill (in their mind) using MY money.

sammyg2 · 11-07-2006, 04:46 PM

Jesus invited his followers to give up their worldly posessions and he would provide for them. it was not manditory AFAIK, it was an invitation that if taken voluntarily promised great spiritual returns.
I can't think of a single instance where Jesus required anyone to put their wealth in a collection basket. he did suggest they give up earthly items, in fact I think he said something like "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle that for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god", and something about "you can't worship money and god too".
But, it was all voluntary. No one was forced to follow Jesus. Poeople followed him because they wanted to. I remember reading something about Jesus suggesting that we give anonimously, doing it because it was in our hearts, not because we are forced to or because we want recognition.
I don't remember the exact words but he said something like those who give for recognition have recieved all the reward coming to them but those who give quietly from the heart will receive the kingdom of god. I probably butchered that all up but the idea is there.

People should take care of each other, but they should do it because it's the right thing to do. Not because the government has decided that they have to or are to greedy to do the right thing.

The bible suggests over and over that we should tythe, or set aside 1/10th of our wealth for god's work. I interpret that to mean charity and to spread the word.
I admit I don't give 10% of my wealth to the church but if you took into account the money that I donate and also pay in taxes to support others, it all adds up to way more than 10%.

I know people who don't normally give to charities because they feel they already pay too much taxes. fine. Maybe they are selfish, maybe they are greedy, or maybe they are right?

People on this board are always talking about the separation of church and state, but the government is mandating it does the work of the church. IMO that is oversteppnig the limits and it is non-productive.
We should help people up so they can stand on their own. Not provide for them so they don't have to stand at all.

m21sniper · 11-07-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugh R
A liberal to me is someone who has great plans for solving some societal ill (in their mind) using MY money.

Actually that's a socialist.

Oh, wait....

Superman · 11-07-2006, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sammyg2
Jesus invited his followers to give up their worldly posessions and he would provide for them. it was not manditory AFAIK, it was an invitation that if taken voluntarily promised great spiritual returns.

Yeah well, don't play Bible trivia games for money. I don't seem to have a Bible in my current office (musta took it home), but there is an instance where a rich guy went away dejected because he was unwilling to leave his loot in the basket. It was MANDATORY. Part of the "eye of the needle" analogy, which is widely misunderstood. Also, the community "pot" was not even the possession of the group. It was to be used to help widows and children and any and all disadvantages people regardless of whether they belonged to the group or not.

I have no idea how some of you so-called "conservative Christians" (an oxymoron if I ever heard one) can so vigorously (and with a straight face) pretend that your beloved survival-of-the-fittest, greed-is-good economic system is in any way compatible with Christianity. It is not. It is the antithesis of the Eutopia Christ described. He told us how to create our own Heaven right here on Earth, while we are waiting. Sadly, the pagan hippies seem better at following Christ's social teaching than you holier-than-thou capitalists.