Predictions for Tonight

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
So....

It is far better to let children (who had no choice to be born), the elderly (who lost their money in places llike Enron, Global Crossings, etc) and the disabled to fend for themselves?

No, I do not believe in full scale assistance for all, but there are those who truly need help through no fault of their own. Obviously, our responses on threads like this ar limited and do not say everything as clearly as we probably would in person, but to dismantle social assistance completely would go a long way in transforming our society back to an almost feudal state with a majority of poor and disadvantaged, and a minority of landholders and decision makers. Then again, that might make some here rather happy.

BTW...Get a copy of the November Scientific American and read the article on page 42, or just go to www.sciam.com/ontheweb a comparison between the economies and services of high income low tax countries and high tax high income countries. You might find it enlightning.

Pray you never become one of the truly disadvantaged in this country.

You can chirp about your socialist delusions all you want, it still doesnt change the fact that it's wrong to steal off citizen A to put food in the mouth of a lazy citizen B.

Theft is theft is theft.

Besides, all those Euro socialist economies are going to start failing in the next 20-30 years anyway as their populations continue to age.

Socialism is evil.

As far as being advantadged/disadvantadged, i grew up in the hood, and EVERYTHING i have i have because I worked for it.

I don't even take advantadge of my veterans benefits becasue- as i said, i simply do not believe in socialism. The United States was founded as a republic, not a socialist state.

It's the dumbocratz that have effectively transformed it from the former, to the latter...starting with your boy FDR.

[Superman]

Originally posted by m21sniper
Socialism is evil.

Right you are. Jesus was pretty clear on this. The sharing of resources only causes laziness and dependency. He said it over and over. Quite evil.

[dd74]

Originally posted by m21sniper

Socialism is evil.

Welcome back, Mul.

[m21sniper]

Mul?

The name is Snipe.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by Superman
Right you are. Jesus was pretty clear on this. The sharing of resources only causes laziness and dependency. He said it over and over. Quite evil.

Do i detect a hint of sarcasm?

If so, i would point out that there is a massive difference between giving freely out of the goodness of your heart and compulsory state enforced 'donations'.

Yes?

[Moses]

Originally posted by Superman
It's a great day. Can't lose. I'm expecting to watch my government take on some balance, at least.

Agreed. Now, more than ever, this great nation needs GRIDLOCK.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by Moses
Agreed. Now, more than ever, this great nation needs GRIDLOCK.

In the absence of one clearly superior party/choice(as is the case), you are correct...gridlock is the next best thing.

[Moses]

Both parties have a clear vision of where they want to take our nation. Both plans involve the continued loss of our money and liberty.

[stevepaa]

Originally posted by m21sniper
Look at the cumulative expenditure of "The New Deal" and say that.

Compared to socialism, war is cheap. And unlike socialism, war can actually produce a just result.

Only if lives are cheap. That's where we differ.

[DaveE]

Originally posted by m21sniper
Both parties just spend, spend, spend. And they'll continue to do so until we take their T-bird away.

The difference btw libs and repubs is that the libs raise your taxes in the process.

Jeez, read THAT carefully!

[sammyg2]

Sup, bad move.
Comparing Jesus to a socialist? Not right.
The government should not be in the charity business, private citizens should. that was what Jesus was preaching, that people should take care of one another. Government had nothing to do with it.
I absolutely hate having my hard earned money taken from me against my will so it can go to the undeserving or be wasted on some other stupid program.

But....... my wife and I voluntarily rack up about $8,000 a year in donations to our church. Much of that money goes to feed the hungry, clothe those who need clothes, help some members of our community pay bills when they fall behind, we even built a school and house for a pastor in mexico. That's what Jesus was talking about.

You see there is a difference. It should be my decision, not someone else's.
Charity begins at home and not at the polling booth.

[Moneyguy1]

Snipe....

I believe that charity should be a private matte in a perfect world, but that is as unlikely to work as it would be for each individual to provide their own security, fire protection and military.

Unfortunately, you make the same mistake that many others have made in providing labels withlut an iota of factual evidence. So you came from the hood.....Wow. And this is relevant how? You do not take advantage of what you earned by service to your country? again, Wow.

My friend, you sound like a foil for fastpat. The other end of the spectrum in some respects with the same aims. As welcome as you are to your POV, I cannot in all honesty be that callous toward those that have real need. If I am somewhat socially leaning, so be it. Then again, I am so conservative on economic matters, most of you would think me draconian. I would rather be inclined to help my fellow man than turn my back on them and let them suffer, which BTW has been an attitude that has brought down whole governments; ignoring the masses. There has to be a balance.

BTW.....The statement "socialism is evil" is an opinion, not a fact. Look up that article in Scientific American I recommended. Once again, there has to be a balance between extreme "individualism" and extreme "welfare state" thinking.

Man, it becomes more difficult to deal with extremists. Maybe I should just give in and become one myself!!

[lendaddy]

Or maybe your definition of extremist is skewed?

[mikester]

I really wish you guys would stop clogging up the internet with your political rantings.

Sheesh! What's a guy got to do to download some freakin porn around here?

I mean COME ON!

[red-beard]

I think we should KILL all extremists!!!!

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by stevepaa
Only if lives are cheap. That's where we differ.

You dispute that war can produce a just result?

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by sammyg2
Sup, bad move.
Comparing Jesus to a socialist? Not right.
The government should not be in the charity business, private citizens should. that was what Jesus was preaching, that people should take care of one another. Government had nothing to do with it.
I absolutely hate having my hard earned money taken from me against my will so it can go to the undeserving or be wasted on some other stupid program.

But....... my wife and I voluntarily rack up about $8,000 a year in donations to our church. Much of that money goes to feed the hungry, clothe those who need clothes, help some members of our community pay bills when they fall behind, we even built a school and house for a pastor in mexico. That's what Jesus was talking about.

You see there is a difference. It should be my decision, not someone else's.
Charity begins at home and not at the polling booth.

Very well put sir.

Charity is a virtue, socialism is a disease.

[stevepaa]

Originally posted by m21sniper
You dispute that war can produce a just result?

like the just end to WW1 brought about WW2?

Just ask Pat about the war to quell southern separatists!

Like you think the Iraq war will get a just result? By whose standards?

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Snipe....

I believe that charity should be a private matte in a perfect world, but that is as unlikely to work as it would be for each individual to provide their own security, fire protection and military.

I believe that if you try to take my money without my permission all you're going to pull back is a bloody stump.

I believe that comparing social welfare to the national defense and fire departments is utterly ridiculous.

Unfortunately, you make the same mistake that many others have made in providing labels withlut an iota of factual evidence.

Example please.

So you came from the hood.....Wow. And this is relevant how?

It is directly relevant because i came from a position of disadvantadge- and ON MY OWN- raised myself up.

Thereby proving that people do NOT need handouts to excel.

You do not take advantage of what you earned by service to your country? again, Wow.

That is relevant because it is a clear example that i practice what i preach.

My friend, you sound like a foil for fastpat. The other end of the spectrum in some respects with the same aims.

And you sound as if you are addressing me with a tone of condescension...which is quite unfounded.

As welcome as you are to your POV, I cannot in all honesty be that callous toward those that have real need.

That is why god invented Charity. IF YOU want to help people, by all means, use it.

If I am somewhat socially leaning, so be it. Then again, I am so conservative on economic matters, most of you would think me draconian. I would rather be inclined to help my fellow man than turn my back on them and let them suffer, which BTW has been an attitude that has brought down whole governments; ignoring the masses. There has to be a balance.

It is not my problem if you are too lazy to work, or continue to spit out babies, or never bothered to graduate HS, or get a grant for college, or never joined the military to learn a trade or get money for said college.

Even if you have spinalbifida and three heads, it is NOT my fault, and REQUIRING ME to pay for YOU is unjust.

BTW.....The statement "socialism is evil" is an opinion, not a fact. Look up that article in Scientific American I recommended.

You know genius, the statment "Facism and communism are evil" is just an opinion too.

Like EVERYTHING you just offered above.

Or are you the only one entitled to voice an opinion?

Once again, there has to be a balance between extreme "individualism" and extreme "welfare state" thinking.

There is, it's called CHARITY, and it's VOLUNTARY.

Man, it becomes more difficult to deal with extremists. Maybe I should just give in and become one myself!!

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

It BAFFLES my mind that you feel i'm an extremist for intellectually arguing against socialism.

Again, Socialists are evil...and a mere step removed from full fledged communists.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by stevepaa
like the just end to WW1 brought about WW2?

I was more thinking of the result to WWII that brought about the world you live in today.

Think that was a pretty just result?

But, WWI is an excellent example that all politicians are prone to stupidity, even after the military has bled achieving victory.

Just ask Pat about the war to quell southern separatists!

So slavery was just and the ending of it unjust?

Like you think the Iraq war will get a just result? By whose standards?

It already has, Saddam will pay for his crimes against humanity, and his mechanism of tyranny has been demolished. Both of those are very just outcomes.

At least now the Iraqis have a CHANCE to choose a future for themselves, something they DID NOT have before.

But if i were to characterize the future of Iraq with one word, it would be chaos.(as opposed to an endless tyranny, which existed prior to the invasion)