The God Poll

[kstar]

I must admit I am a bit surprised at the results of the poll so far!

Very Interesting.

Best,

Kurt

[Jadams1]

Believing what can not be proved requires faith.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally posted by Rondinone
Uh, yeah, there is. Just not for you.

Implying that you know there is a God rather than that you believe in a God tells me that your are ignorant at best and psychotic at worst.

Show me first-hand, documented evidence or perform a repeatable, reproducible experiment that demonstrates either the existence or non-existence of a God.

Believing what can not be proved requires faith.

Excellent post. Faith != knowledge.

[jkarolyi]

>Believing what can not be proved requires faith.

Yep, but it takes just as much faith to believe in a God as to not believe in one. God's existence can neither be proved or disproved. How we otherwise got to be here (evolution, big bang, etc.) cannot be proved or disproved.

You have to choose where your faith lies.

[kang]

Originally posted by jkarolyi
>Believing what can not be proved requires faith.

Yep, but it takes just as much faith to believe in a God as to not believe in one. God's existence can neither be proved or disproved. How we otherwise got to be here (evolution, big bang, etc.) cannot be proved or disproved.

You have to choose where your faith lies.

This is not true. As stated in the other thread, saying that not believing in god requires faith is like saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Faith, and the belief in god, is simply an emotion. It is something your heart tells you, not your brain. It’s in your genes. If you have the propensity to believe, you cannot NOT believe, regardless of what your brain may tell you.

[Moneyguy1]

Just curious...is the opposite also true? "If you have the propensity not to believe, you cannot believe....."

Still trying to wrap my head around the circular argument at the core of this thread.

[Burnin' oil]

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them." I Cor. 2:14

[IROC]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Just curious...is the opposite also true? "If you have the propensity not to believe, you cannot believe....."

I think is true to a great extent if you look at it another way. Look at it from the standpoind of "you cannot *will* yourself to believe in something". Either you do or you don't. Why you do or do not may have different underlying reasons.

I would word it, "if you have the propensity to not accept things on faith alone, then you *cannot* believe".

[Turbo_pro]

Originally posted by kang
This is not true. As stated in the other thread, saying that not believing in god requires faith is like saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
.................edit.............

Taken straight from the Atheist talking points.
Do you guys have a play book. If we could see it maybe we could get on the same page.

Do a simple search on the sentence and you'll see what I mean. All you Atheists has the same rap.

[IROC]

Originally posted by Turbo_pro
All you Atheists has the same rap.

Being evil will do that to you.

[trekkor]

Originally posted by Burnin' oil
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them." I Cor. 2:14

Thank you...



KT

[Steve PH]

Were is the "I'm sitting on the fence, not really convinced that there is a God or higher being but willing to keep an open mind option" ?

[jkarolyi]

> This is not true. As stated in the other thread, saying that not believing in god requires faith is like saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Total non-sequitur. You either have faith in God or in alternate explanations and theories of the existence of the physical world. All require faith.

If one of the options on the table is not to think about or care how you got here or why you exist, then yes, your statement holds true. I'm hoping you've progressed from that child-like mentality.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

How we otherwise got to be here (evolution, big bang, etc.) cannot be proved or disproved.

Now that's funny. I'll refer you to Moses for the evolution argument.

[the]

Originally posted by jkarolyi
> This is not true. As stated in the other thread, saying that not believing in god requires faith is like saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Total non-sequitur. You either have faith in God or in alternate explanations and theories of the existence of the physical world. All require faith.

Your "either / or" is untrue.

"We don't yet know" is neither faith in a god, nor faith in alternate theories.

[jkarolyi]

So then you fall into the category that you conveniently left off my post. I've never met anyone who has really researched deistic and evolutionary theory and doesn't believe in any part of it. You consider yourself a Nihilist then? To me, fence-sitting has always been an intellectual cop-out. A thinking person should hold beliefs and faith while remaining open minded to modify those beliefs and faith when so enlightened.

"Vee are Nihlists...vee believe in Nothing" (Big Leboowski)

>>If one of the options on the table is not to think about or care how you got here or why you exist, then yes, your statement holds true. I'm hoping you've progressed from that child-like mentality.

[rennch]

You can take all the mystics from all the religions and lock them in a room together, and they'd share their snacks. You can take the fundamentalists from those same religions and lock them in the same room, and they'd make snacks out of each other.

- Stuart Davis (http://www.stuartdavis.com)

[IROC]

Originally posted by jkarolyi
So then you fall into the category that you conveniently left off my post. I've never met anyone who has really researched deistic and evolutionary theory and doesn't believe in any part of it.

Maybe another way to look at is that one does not "believe" in the theory of evolution, for instance. One "accepts the theory based on the evidence in support of it". To me, the word "believe" carries the connotation that you buy into something that either has no evidence to support it or that you really know nothing about it, but simply choose to believe.

I know many people who hold strong beliefs about things they know nothing about. I know many people who believe things for which there is either no evidence or for which there is strong evidence that contradicts what they believe and they simply choose to believe anyway.

[the]

Originally posted by jkarolyi
So then you fall into the category that you conveniently left off my post. I've never met anyone who has really researched deistic and evolutionary theory and doesn't believe in any part of it. You consider yourself a Nihilist then? To me, fence-sitting has always been an intellectual cop-out. A thinking person should hold beliefs and faith while remaining open minded to modify those beliefs and faith when so enlightened.

"Vee are Nihlists...vee believe in Nothing" (Big Leboowski)

>>If one of the options on the table is not to think about or care how you got here or why you exist, then yes, your statement holds true. I'm hoping you've progressed from that child-like mentality.

I believe in the objective truths that have been proven by the scientific method. Many issues relating to our life here on earth have been proven.

But much does remain unknown. As to what is unknown, I accept those as unknown at this time, but am open to convincing. And I remain open to convincing by any method. The scientific method would work. But it is possible I could receive "divine inspiration" and believe based on that. It hasn't happened, but I can't rule it out, because I can't predict the future.

[Victor]

Originally posted by Turbo_pro
I think a fifth option would have been nice. "I have seen no compelling evidence to suggest the lack of a god". I can't prove that one does exist, but all the evidence suggests the probability is high.


Creation or random selection?

Ahhhrgh! The things you see when you haven't got a gun!!