Angry White Man

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

AP - nice play on words. Every point you've made against me I could use on you. Text book ultra liberal response to something you don't want to hear. Your the other side of the coin to waving the flag to justify anything that the far right is so fond of.

On second thought Peter, I agree. We're the worst...

There you go assuming again....

So if it's not black, it must be white, right?

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

Wow Dr Phil - that's deep.

That's hilarious! From what I've heard anyway. Do you actually follow that buffoon's BS?

This somehow makes reverse discrimination okay? You and Peter are a trip. You guys can go ahead and wring your hands fretting over something you have not even the smallest intention of addressing, let alone solving.

Geeze! Here I thought the hands wringing were the angry white man's! The problems HAVE been adressed over the last several decades in ways that have succeeded and in ways that have failed or are failing (which makes a lot of white men angry, whiney and fearful, but doesn't mobilize them to take action to correct failed attempts or come up with solutions.

The rest of us will move forward into a better, more enlightened world unencumbered by blame.

That would be great. Bear in mind, however, that progress will be quicker if you forgo your recalcitrance in solving the ongoing problems you percieve. Simply getting angry and whining about your self percieved bad state of affairs hasn't worked very well so far, eh?

..

[nostatic]

if one does not understand their past, they will always be encumbered moving forward. You can't be enlightened if you don't know where you've been.

One does not need to wallow in the past, but at least acknowledge it and have some empathy. It is interesting that the AWM whining doesn't seem to lead anyone to the irony inherent in reverse discrimination. As I said, payback is a beotch. There are people who still are discriminated against based on race or sex (talk to women execs), and have been since time out of mind. The AWM is rather late to the discrimination party, but now he's pissed. It sucks, doesn't it? Now maybe you understand why others have been pissed off for so long, and why the "level playing field" really isn't. And this dynamic goes into why AWM can't get away with the "n" word while blacks can. It is all tied together.

[lendaddy]

So AWM should be happy where others held back were understandably pissed? I thought I was supposed to learn from history.

[lendaddy]

How far back from equality would blacks still be if they were "cool with it"?

[Jim Bremner]

I don't like the term Angry White Man. I prefer Realistic White Man.

Race needs to be dropped off of ANY and ALL discussions, forms census etc.

to give 1 group over the other an edge is wrong.

[kqw]

As the saying goes......"Sooner or later people show their true colors".....

[lendaddy]

BTW I don't consider myself anything close to angry. I don't like A/A but in general but I don't begrudge anyone from making the best of their situation.

I do get tired of hearing how easy I had it from people without a clue though.

[SLO-BOB]

You two (not Todd) are very good at talking in circles. Like I said - I agree. You're right. Now tell me your solution. You've talked the talk, now tell us all about the walk.

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

I don't like the term Angry White Man. I prefer Realistic White Man.

Race needs to be dropped off of ANY and ALL discussions, forms census etc.

to give 1 group over the other an edge is wrong.

I do not fear any AWM or supposed tough guys. What I fear are those poor unenlightened souls who want to rip up golf courses!

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

I don't like the term Angry White Man. I prefer Realistic White Man.

Race needs to be dropped off of ANY and ALL discussions, forms census etc.

I agree. Given that, wouldn't you need to drop the "White" and make it just "Angry Man"?

to give 1 group over the other an edge is wrong.

"Angry Man voices anger" would make an interesting read if all "groups" of angry men sat down together and hammered out their differences to the satisfaction of all (Hey! Jus' call me Doctor Phil ).

..

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

You two (not Todd) are very good at talking in circles. Like I said - I agree. You're right. Now tell me your solution. You've talked the talk, now tell us all about the walk.

If you are referring to me, perhaps you need to re-read every one of my posts on this subject. I'm also not sure what circular logic you are claiming. I have stated facts which you have claimed are not facts along with impugning my ability to observe/state facts vs opinions - smacks of similarities (of course I also don't understand that concept either), to those who claim the holocaust did not happen/the facts aren't really there.

Have there been demands for a "solution"? What I have sought (and you and others have resisted) is the simple realization that inequities have existed, and continue to be present. Kind of like any twelve step program - first you have to admit there is a problem. Very much the same as Todd's posts, hence I am puzzled why you seek to separate them.

If you truly believe that these inequities have been present and continue to be insidious and pervasive, take a look around and ask yourself just how much of your interactions with someone short vs tall, obese vs thin, man vs woman, young vs old, and yes even white vs anything else are colored by the little "accepted" assumptions about that "class" of person. You know, "fat"=lazy, tall=leader (look up the voting history of the US in presidential elections since tv started) etc.

Maybe you'll then understand why some people want "so much" even if it doesn't seem fair to you (and may not be right either). Walk a mile in their shoes even if it is a mental exercise. And financially; I don't know your position on reparations for Japanese Americans (though I could hazard a guess) from WWII or German Jews or slaves, but just imagine that you had 1000 acres of farmland or a great business that got taken away by people who didn't like your hair color or eyes. That is a huge generationally important set of lost assets. That is why there is so much bitterness out there by these folks.

Yes, some people overcome their circumstances all the time, and it is easy to hold them up to say "look it can be done", but it is simplistic to believe that because one person can achieve success it translates to anybody in that situation. It is the societal anecdote, and much like science vs anecdote in health care, where you can always find one person who thinks a given treatment made him/her better (whether or not it killed 300 others), it is in-valid.

And that's it. Who knows, maybe if you do enough investigation and thinking you'll choose to change something yourself. Maybe, even believe that not everyone born in the inner city can bootstrap themselves to the CEO of Coca cola.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by K. Roman

Wow, the angry white man sounds too good to be true. Reminds me of Hitlers Aryan men he was so fond of.

that is because you are an ignorant bigot

Originally Posted by nostatic

You can deny the blame, but it's your legacy. Just as it helped you to get where you are, it is also your albatross. Payback is a beotch...welcome to the new world order.

Todd, you are normally much more insightful than this.

Originally Posted by DARISC

With all due respect, Scott, I don't believe Todd was taking any position, but rather simply citing historical fact.

With all due respect to you, he stated his opinion, in a manner colored to support his position, yeah, he took one, you just did not notice. 230 years of oppressing everyone else takes a lot out of a gang of crackers

I am not angry, I am disappointed. This country was founded by white males, they wrote the playbook why would you be surprised when they dominate the game. Clearly, the folks in power, primarily white males, have abused pretty much everyone else at one time or another, even other white males, this is a fact I would concede.

Given this fact, it is something much more than disingenuous to say 200 plus years of oppression and abuse by the White Male. This completely dismisses any progress made in the last 50 years. MLK Jr may have plagiarized parts of his doctoral thesis, but he had a lot of good ideas and had the ability to move people to action. LBJ was a real horse's ass in a lot of ways, but that redneck SOB signed that civil rights deal into law.

He was an angry white male in the power elite so maybe we are not all evil, all the time. We get a bit peeved because it appears that all the world's ills are because of us, and we never did any good for anyone but ourselves. The fact that we are the only group the first amendment does not fully apply to anymore has us a bit miffed too, but you will still see us going to work everyday and paying our taxes

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Tobra

I am not angry, I am disappointed.

Todd strikes you as not being insightful because, in this instance, he has presented something that you fail to grasp - sorry, but that's true; you wouldn't be so angry and disappointed if it weren't.

"The rain is famous for falling on the just and unjust alike, but if I had the management of such affairs I would rain softly and sweetly on the just, but if I caught a sample of the unjust out doors I would drown him.”
Mark Twain

Best keep an eye on the weather .

[the]

Whenever people talk about a "solution," why does that solution always have to involve the government?

Does it not seem true that the ethnic/racial/whatever minority groups that have been "helped" the MOST by the government seem to make the least progress?

There have been a ton of different ethnic, racial and religious groups that have come to this country, been a minority, and been discriminated against. And have become successful. It seems to me that pattern that happens the most successfully is the group generally doesn't look to the government, they tend to develop businesses that others (at the time) aren't really interested in. Stuff like gardening, liquor stores, dry cleaners, etc.

They watch after their own communities, support each other, create their own communities and businesses when necessary, educate their kids, create strong and supportive families, work hard, assimilate, and eventually become successful. All while asking little or nothing from the government (pretty much happy to just be left alone to do their thing).

At least that's what I saw a lot of growing up in the Crenshaw district and other areas throughout LA in the 60s/70s/80s.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by DARISC

Todd strikes you as not being insightful because, in this instance, he has presented something that you fail to grasp - sorry, but that's true; you wouldn't be so angry and disappointed if it weren't.

"The rain is famous for falling on the just and unjust alike, but if I had the management of such affairs I would rain softly and sweetly on the just, but if I caught a sample of the unjust out doors I would drown him.”
Mark Twain

Best keep an eye on the weather .

You should probably work on your reading comprehension. Clearly you did not understand what I wrote, or perhaps just assumed you knew what was going to say and did not read very carefully.

You don't need to worry about keeping an eye on the weather so much my friend. The quote from Clemens refers to the unjust getting drowned by the rain, not the ignorant who read poorly, so you should be in the clear. I have been told before that ignorance is no excuse before though, so maybe you should buy a good umbrella

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Tobra

You should probably work on your reading comprehension. Clearly you did not understand what I wrote, or perhaps just assumed you knew what was going to say and did not read very carefully.

You don't need to worry about keeping an eye on the weather so much my friend. The quote from Clemens refers to the unjust getting drowned by the rain, not the ignorant who read poorly, so you should be in the clear. I have been told before that ignorance is no excuse before though, so maybe you should buy a good umbrella

Reading comprehension isn't a problem for me. Nor is percieving what is unjust. I comprehend exactly what Clemens refers to and find it a humorous irony to be included in your posts on this thread.

[Sapporo Guy]

ewww, tone is turning ...



Interesting that not many solutions are being posted ... best one so far was to "move on" ... (or something like that).

Go through history:
one group is always oppressing another!
Which comes down to "my" group versus "your" group ... color just seems to be the hip thing for the last few decades. I remember growing up in WNY and jokes were about the Poles.

This made me think that that new group in had to prove his worth or ride it out until another group came along.

IF we were all blind ... imagine the different ways we would find to group ourselves.
Humans are pack animals, no wonder we get along so well with dogs

We are pack animals ... we protect our pack. So, how do you fight Darwinism?

Inter-Continental travel, radio, TV, the internet have broken the barriers and we are still trying to adjust to a new enivornment that our evolution didn't prepare us for. What can you do?

Maybe the AWM message is carried out in the wrong way and the wording is mistaken but the under tone has something to say much like MLK.

We as humans need to evolve. Using the system to solve the problem makes no sense. The system is based on old-world evolution thinking and it just can not manage to without a radical change.

How are we to change then? The only way I can think of at the moment is if ALL parties come to the same conclusion at the same time. We are ALL HUMANS, we ALL have a chance to change our lot in life, we ALL have the same responsiblity to make this happen.

lolo, utopia ...

Which is unlikely to happen in my life time, so why don't we just put on our shoes and go out an work and make something of ourselves or at least progress far enough that our offspring will be in a better position than we are at the moment.

No law or government is going to make this happen. WE have to make this happen. We also have to admit honestly that others will have something that we don't have. This is life. Face it and own up to it.



Now on to a few tangents

An interesting thought I had was; how many of us have faced daily repression based on what ever?


A good question that came up was, Why do I have to pay too? I don't have any affiliation with the past in such said country.


In a sense, I can understand those who use the system. They found the loop holes. That much more power to them! For those who feel they have been cheated ... go out and form unions, lobby the government. Put reverse discrimination laws into the books. Fight fire with fire. You suffered undeniable hardships because of those laws. You lost pay. Bring it to the courts, create a class-action suit. Now, you too can milk the system. So, why don't you? nahhhhhh ... that's too easy, much better to B@tch about it.


Another thing that caught my eye was the PC cr@p. Guys, guys ... why are you putting up with this?

women: young lady, Lady, ma'am, Miss, Mrs.
men: Mr., Sir, young man ... why did women get to make a new word ??? Ms. ????

Why couldn't both be fixed at "M." ??? Oh I see, we have to separate the sexes ... oh great

ummm, how about the word "she" having the word "he" in it?
or the word "man" in "human" ...
or the word "male" in "female" ...

Why do we have to keep coming up with new words in place of using words that already exists?

Anyway, I really feel degraded, beaten, vulgar because nobody, and I do mean nobody has tried to fix the word "manhole" cover !!! It's so insulting to have "menhole" covers being driven over and walked on everyday. Why couldn't somebody come up with a word like "sewage hole" cover.



lolo, another late night post ... I should just go to bed!


Last note: Let's stop the talk and start the walk