A BBq Lesson by The Master

[Tobra]

Y'all need to go to some county fair barbeque cookoff if you think that competition stuff is not the real deal.

Had well over 100 teams at Montgomery County

[VincentVega]

Not exactly BBQ but I had a few friends over for this saturday.

Keep these threads coming, I'm taking notes for next time....

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by holtjv

When I was down in Mexico, a bartender claimed that the original recipe for a margarita was 2 parts tequila to 1 part contreau and the juice of one lime. This is the recipe I use now and it is dramatically excellent. Lots of flavor impartment for one.

I'm reasonably certain I know that guy. But I have no idea where and when I met him.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by holtjv

So here's a question for the bbq-intellegentsia (had a hard time spelling that): how the F do you get the meat to fall off the bones? How long do I have to cook it?

The ribs I did today were very, very tasty--and seemed like they were about 2-4 hours away from "falling off the bone" tender. But is there any formula, like time per pound?

TIA, Jack

I have found that 5 hours at 220-225 is just about right for ribs. I smoke mine uncovered for 2 hours, then in foil for 1 1/2 hours, then back onto the smoker for another hour or so.

What you want to see the the meat pulled back from the bone an inch or so and the rib should be twistable but not spinning freely in the meat. If it spins freely the rib is overdone and the bone will just fall out.

You want the meat to pull cleanly and easily off the bone when pulled but you want enough structure there so you can pick it up by the bone and eat it.

Leaving the correct layer of membrane on there when you prep the ribs is also key. Take too much membrane off and you will certainly have the bones falling out of the meat once it's done.

[rusnak]

I think we need to qualify our responses to the type of meat, and type of cut and approximate weight. For an average rack of St. Luis style pork ribs, I use an infrared thermometer (240F), peachwood smoke, and smoke for about 3 hours. I remove all of the silverskin. I finish with a steambath of apple cider to give the ribs a carmelized apple flavor, 45 mins at 220F. The ribs will have enough structure to be sliced apart and they will stay on the bone until you pull the meat off with the tip of a fork or your teeth.

[RWebb]

"do a little digging on where these techniques came from and how they evolved."

- are we going to invade China? This style of cooking was invented by the Mongols, for a nomadic, horse-based existence. If you don't kill a wild animal, you kill a horse, cook whichever over the fire/coals and load up a saddle animal with the rest. Then you move on until you run out of meat.

[tabs]

I really don't care about tradition, I just make good BBq.

I also use a Mop made out of Apple Juice, Brown Sugar, cidar vinegar, vegetable oil as a binder, and the spices I use as a dry rub.

[tabs]

I prefer Baby Backs..I cook 3 racks at a time as that is a Costco/Sams package.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by RWebb

"do a little digging on where these techniques came from and how they evolved."

- are we going to invade China? This style of cooking was invented by the Mongols, for a nomadic, horse-based existence. If you don't kill a wild animal, you kill a horse, cook whichever over the fire/coals and load up a saddle animal with the rest. Then you move on until you run out of meat.

I was referring to the origins of American barbeque. The Chinese had very little to do with that. Also, some of you guys need to differentiate between dry heat cooking and moist heat cooking. One method is used in barbeque, the other is not.

JR

[Mule]

What tabs was attempting was smoking. Not quite the same as bbq and definitely not Chinese. It developed in the South, not San Francisco.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Mule

What tabs was attempting was smoking. Not quite the same as bbq and definitely not Chinese. It developed in the South, not San Francisco.

Ahh, more pearls of wisdom. Mule is on to something here. Barbeque is a somewhat bastardized word, usually used incorrectly to include a whole host of things that have nothing to do with true barbeque, from the meat that is used, to the method of cooking, the cooking apparatus, etc. Let's start at the beginning:

American barbeque, as opposed to Chinese, Mexican, Mongol, or what have you, is very simple. A pig, cooked on a grate or stick, over the coals of a hardwood fire in a pit in the ground. It dates from the 1500's or 1600's, more or less originated on the east coast in the Carolinas and can be traced to either the American indians or the Carribean indians, depending upon who you ask. At any rate, the indians had the method. Europeans brought with them the pig and the indians knew immedialtely what to do with it.

If you were to dig a pit in the ground, build a fire in the pit and then, when the wood is reduced to coals, suspend a pig over the pit, you would create barbeque. If you were to baste it occasionally with a vinegar, salt and pepper "sauce," so much the better.

If you cover the pit with dirt and wrap the meat in banana leaves or burlap, you would be doing it like the Mexicans do (or the Hawaiians, or whomever) but this is not barbeque, as it is a form of moist heat cooking. That's why the leaves or burlap are soaked in water. Part of the cooking is from steam. Call it a braise, if you do it in an oven, ala Alton Brown.

Build a fire in a lower chamber of an offset smoker and cook the meat in a separate, higher chamber, ala Tabs the Master Buffeter, and you will be smoking, not barbequeing. What's missing is the radiant heat from the coals. It will still cook the meat and impart a smoke flavor but it win't be the same.

Fire up a Weber and toss on the pig and you will grill the meat, unless you can get enough distance between the coals and the meat to get the temperature right. Grilles usually burn too hot.

See the photos below, for illustration. The second one shows a way to create a pit of sorts, without digging the hole. Many modern barbeque "pits" are based upon this.




There's a lot of crap out there calling itself barbeque and the real stuff is getting harder to find every year. None of the BBQ joints in my neck of the woods do it right. Even in North Carolina, many places have reverted to gas or electric heat, simply because to do it right is a bunch of hot, nasty work and as a country, we are gettin too damn lazy too do anything right. In my family, when we ate barbeque, we started cooking it the day before and tended it all night. Not exactly fun.

Those of you that have not had (Eastern) North Carolina BBQ first-hand should plan a road trip soon, before the good stuff is gone for good.

It is sad, when a rabbel-rousing foreigner (svandamme) argues about BBQ with Americans and gets it right.

Carry on with your arguments,
JR

[The Gaijin]

I wish I were raising a few pigs this year. The trees have a bumper crop of apples. That has got to make for good tasting pork. Not so sure about this factory raised "new white meat".

[VINMAN]

Maybe the next Pelican meet should be a Pelican member BBQ cookoff! See who the real "Master " is!

[svandamme]

that's pretty much how i do it
i have heat reflecting bricks from a torn down industrial oven
first i fire up my coal, get it scorching hot and white, i get my meat over it

i don't use sticks , i do use a grill, but it's a fire/coal pit, and the meat is right above it , in open air
no nancying about with temp gauges, chimneys and crappy whiskey in bowls

[RWebb]

I think we are just gonna have to have some taste tests.

Since I am apparently the only scientist on this bbs, I guess I will have to do them. Hell of a sacrifice, but jdawg your historical analysis and posted images have qualified you to be the first contestant. Send me a couple of airline tickets and my asst. and I will be down this aumn (after it cools off).

Who wants to be second?

[tabascobobcat]

Someone dropped off an entire pork rib and asked me to prepare it for the party.
Brined it in salt/brown sugar over night.
8 hours on the apple wood fed smoker.
Even chopped up a couple apples and threw on the coals.
Because of the size of this thing, I chose to mop it a couple of time with a vinegar/apple juice & spice deal.
Let it sit overnight. Then 4 hours in the oven at 225 F to reheat and tenderize.
I don't care if you call it bbq, smokin' or grillin'
It was delicious.

[Tim Walsh]

Originally Posted by javadog

There's a lot of crap out there calling itself barbeque and the real stuff is getting harder to find every year. None of the BBQ joints in my neck of the woods do it right. Even in North Carolina, many places have reverted to gas or electric heat, simply because to do it right is a bunch of hot, nasty work and as a country, we are gettin too damn lazy too do anything right. In my family, when we ate barbeque, we started cooking it the day before and tended it all night. Not exactly fun.

Those of you that have not had (Eastern) North Carolina BBQ first-hand should plan a road trip soon, before the good stuff is gone for good.

It is sad, when a rabbel-rousing foreigner (svandamme) argues about BBQ with Americans and gets it right.

Carry on with your arguments,
JR

LOTS of gas fired places around here, only a few still doing it the "right" way. If you're ever in this neck of the woods try Stamey's in Greensboro, about the only place that still uses the old ways.

[cab83_750]

Originally Posted by javadog

........Let's start at the beginning:

American barbeque, as opposed to Chinese, Mexican, Mongol, or what have you, is very simple. A pig, cooked on a grate or stick, over the coals of a hardwood fire in a pit in the ground. It dates from the 1500's or 1600's, more or less originated on the east coast in the Carolinas and can be traced to either the American indians or the Carribean indians, depending upon who you ask. At any rate, the indians had the method. Europeans brought with them the pig and the indians knew immedialtely what to do with it. .....

JR

Saw this on "What American Eats" episode. BBQ came from the indian word Barbacoa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbacoa

Go ahead and read.

[sammyg2]

You guys can argue about what it barbecue and what isn't but the real answer is "IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU ARE!
Every country, every region has a different technique and definition. BBQ is different in the US than in Europe, Texas is different than South Carolina which is different than St. Louis which is different than my back yard, and so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbecue

Whatever you like, which ever technique you prefer is right.
BTW I have two racks in the fridge right now soaking up the dry rub, they'll be going into the oven in a half hour ala Alton Brown style.

That is most decidedly not traditional barbecue but it'll sure work.

[Hawktel]

I think Alton adressed this in oneof his shows. Don't you have Texas BBQ, St Louis BBQ, and North Caroline BBQ. And none of those are the same thing.