Throwing kids out, how's it work?

[Racerbvd]

Wait, he tried to get himself arrested?????? Do you have Baker the there??

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by masraum

No, we haven't spoken to his Shrink. I'd asked my wife about that, but we hadn't done it.

He's not coming home. I think this is for the best and just pray that it works out for the better and not otherwise.

I think you really need to talk to the shrink and get a diagnosis/prognosis. His behavior sound pretty eratic and if he is clinical and needs meds but isn't getting/taking them, it likely won't turn out well.

[masraum]

Yeah, this was very odd behavior even for him. I kind of wonder if it was because he was on the meds and drinking/robo tripping at the same time.

I'll talk to the shrink.

At least he's out of the house. The hard part will be keeping him out.

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I think you really need to talk to the shrink and get a diagnosis/prognosis. His behavior sound pretty eratic and if he is clinical and needs meds but isn't getting/taking them, it likely won't turn out well.

+1. This is more than just an addiction. This guy has mental issues.

[masraum]

Oh Good grief, this morning he texted me in a very melodramatic way that he won't be alive tomorrow morning but he'll write up a proper will and testament. Idiot.

1 He's got NOTHING to write a will and testament for

2 If he were really serious, he would be giving 24 hr notice. This is obviously a ploy to get us to come running to save him.

Unfortunately, I don't think that this is something that can be ignored. If we do ignore it that might be enough for him to go through with it "I knew they didn't love me....". If we go running up there to save him, then that'll reinforce that any time he is feeling whiney he can pull this stunt and get attention or whatever he wants. I think I'm going to call the police and tell them that he's threatened suicide. Hopefully they'll take him into custody and take him someplace. Maybe that will be a negative reinforcement to ever pulling this crap again. I know what you've all said, we had thought that under certain very strict circumstances, we might allow him back in the house. (very strict with the rules very well laid out) But now I just want to beat his ass for being such a dumbass.

Good grief.

Anyone want a sturdy, 25yo white boy?

[masraum]

Well, I called the police, they went to visit. He told them that he didn't want to harm himself.

[nostatic]

You could have him committed. He either needs serious mental help or he's playing you like a violin.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by nostatic

You could have him committed. He either needs serious mental help or he's playing you like a violin.

Or a little of both. I called his shrink today after the threat. The shrink is worthless. He said that it's very hard to get someone committed on the weekend, and that the best bet was to call the cops. At one point he actually said, "he's got such a hard life, I wouldn't want to live either." Then I asked him what he was talking about and why his life was so hard, he said "because of his burns" He wasn't talking about the same patient. He's a worthless piece of crap and no one in my family will be going back to him.

He did say that the cops could take him to the hospital at which point he could be committed, but since he told the cops that he wasn't suicidal, they can't do anything, and the shrink won't help. I think the shrink is more interested in easy work, talk to someone for 30 mins or an hour and prescribe drugs. He's just another part of what's wrong these days.

I got the name of a shrink from this thread, so maybe we'll check her out if we can get to that point.

[nostatic]

Sounds like a bad shrink. It happens. Try to get him to see another one and get a decent diagnosis. The self-medicating can be for any number of reasons and you need a professional to get at what's driving it. But it also sounds like he's never really hit bottom before. Has he ever lived on his own? And if he did previously, did he get bailed out when the going got tough?

[afterburn 549]

Refer back to post 53
There will be more of these..remember he has to make you the bad guy, uncaring Blah blah
You do not inderstand
It is your fault
Do not bite.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Sounds like a bad shrink. It happens. Try to get him to see another one and get a decent diagnosis. The self-medicating can be for any number of reasons and you need a professional to get at what's driving it. But it also sounds like he's never really hit bottom before. Has he ever lived on his own? And if he did previously, did he get bailed out when the going got tough?

Yeah, he's never hit rock bottom. We'd hoped that at one point about a year ago he'd gotten close enough, but apparently not. Yes, he did live on his own a couple of times, and yes, he has been bailed out.

I was thinking that if he asked for help, that we might be willing to help in some way, but so far he hasn't asked for anything. He's tried to manipulate us with this threat.

I'll really hate it if he does go through with it, but I think it's very important not to give in to his ploy. He seemed pissy that we didn't fall for his stunt.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Refer back to post 53
There will be more of these..remember he has to make you the bad guy, uncaring Blah blah
You do not inderstand
It is your fault
Do not bite.

Right, I agree. If we give in to this, it'll set a life long precedent that won't be good for anyone.

Thanks all.

[911Rob]

Wow! Very sorry to read through this thread Steve.
I started it the other day but it was way too much for me at that time.
I've read every post and offer my deepest sympathies, what a gut wrenching experience to go through.

I have a ton of experience with this type of stuff and I hope that I can help here?

First, he's your stepson and sounds very immature, even though he's 25, he acts like he's about 15. You married his mother and you took the role of the father in the home. I would suggest that you inform your wife that you are taking control of the situation, in an effort to try and alleviate any stress she has; which must be a TON. Put her in the background on the entire issue; you take full control of all decisions from here on in; otherwise you're family home situation is never gonna settle down and get back to normal. This could take years and years!

He's a substance abuser and has some serious issues, now getting himself arrested, etc. You and your wife love him and care for him, you want to do the best for him. The only solution is gonna be tough love at this point. Think about the past help you've provided…. The more you “help” these type of people, the worse they get. It’s how they work, first minor things, now bigger and soon even bigger. You gotta cut him OUT with a safety rope attached with YOUR conditions. Let him understand that it’s a fact, the more you help him, the worse he gets. You want to help him, but there’s nothing you can do to help him until he wants to help himself first. You're gonna need professional help at this point.

That’s condition No.1, he must prove that he wants to help himself first. The only way I can see for that to happen is for him to submit himself to a full time clinic; either for alcohol or drug abuse. Should be a 4 to 6 week program and they’re very strict. You can offer to pay for the help, drive him there and be his full support. BUT you are not professionally or mentally able to help this kid out any longer; in FACT keep this in mind, the tiniest bit of help you do give him will result in him becoming worse off! So don’t help him….. request him to seek professional help, where you’ll be by his side.

As for the suicide thing; I was told by some awesome councilors that if a person of his mental state threatens suicide, you ask him “how are you going to kill yourself?” If he replies with “I’m just gonna kill myself” or something like that, unspecific; you don’t have to worry. (???) But if he gives details of how he is going to do it you’ll need to call the cops ASAP and have him locked up. The first time these types threaten suicide can be a real kicker, practically drove me nuts when I’ve been involved. It gets watered down though. I would make it condition No.2: NEVER tell me that you’re gonna kill yourself again, cause if you do I’m gonna call the cops and have you arrested on the spot. Make them acknowledge your conditions……. I’m going to help you but you are going to promise me this; then make them repeat the promises back to you. Then be very strict about the conditions. You can let a lot of things go, but never the conditions. I made another condition which was you can never drink/abuse in front of me or in my house. Don’t come around or phone me when you’re in that state, period. For you, I'd suggest NO contact with his mom until he's better; make it a condition of your help.

I’d be very worried about your wife; she is going through HELL right now and you need to focus on protecting her. Get her in the background right now. Stop talking about this with her. Let her know that you are going to take charge and handle it. All calls, info, etc. go to you and you protect her from it. You’ll need to get your own personal home life back in order to be any good to this kid at all. Keep that in mind. You always put your own oxygen mask on first, then you assist the person beside you! The better your personal life is, the more you can help him; so keep that in mind and protect yourself. Start building some mental toughness against his whims of terror.

Don’t let him move back in, under any circumstances. After he’s kicked the abuse (note: he’ll only do it if he wants to), then you can go to work on the brain development; which is also going to take some time; after all it was his lack of brains that got him here in the first place. Somewhere along the lines this kid took the path of numbing out his true goals and desires by abusing his mind and body with drugs and alcohol. He lost his sense of desire either from low self esteem or a need for attention? Getting him back on track will be a whole other matter.

Your son will have to move up the emotional scale of ‘self worth’. Today he is feeling “Depression/Despair & Powerlessness”, an improvement to that would be “Insecurity/Guilt or Unworthiness”. Understand that you can only move up the emotional scale one step at a time. So the natural steps are:
Lowest to Highest:
1. Depression/Despair/Powerlessness
2. Insecurity/Guilt/Unworthiness
3. Jealousy
4. Hatred/Rage
5. Anger
6. Discouragement
7. Blame
8. Worry
9. Doubt
10. Disappointment
11. Overwhelming
12. Frustration/Impatience
13. Pessimism
14. Boredom
15. Contentment
16. Hopefulness
17. Optimism
18. Positive Expectation/Belief
19. Enthusiasm/Eagerness/Happiness
20. Passion
21. Joy/Knowledge/Empowerment/Freedom/Love/Appreciation

Keep in mind that YOU will also be moving along this scale. Keep choosing the emotional feeling that feels better, with an understanding that you can’t leap through the process. You move up one step at a time. Anger is a good platform; it’s easy to identify and far better than levels 1 -4. From Anger you can move them up easily if you understand that you don’t want to move them down. Look for signs like ‘blame’ or ‘worry’. These are good steps forward; encourage them.

Start by going to tell your wife that she’s out of it. See how that makes you feel? I’ll bet you feel better and your wife will feel better too.
I wish you all the luck, it’s a tough spot you're in, but we’re all in your corner!
Phead from BC

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yeah, he's never hit rock bottom. We'd hoped that at one point about a year ago he'd gotten close enough, but apparently not. Yes, he did live on his own a couple of times, and yes, he has been bailed out.

I was thinking that if he asked for help, that we might be willing to help in some way, but so far he hasn't asked for anything. He's tried to manipulate us with this threat.

I'll really hate it if he does go through with it, but I think it's very important not to give in to his ploy. He seemed pissy that we didn't fall for his stunt.

Of course he's pissy...you actually stood up to him. Do it a few more times and he might get the hint and grow up a little.

If he seems upset that you didn't cave, then it might be more addict than mental patient. But I'm not a psych professional. Considering your comments on his history though, he sounds like a typical spoiled kid with a problem. Every time he gets in a bind he gets a bailout so why should he change his behavior? And he obviously hasn't come too close to bottoming out.

I think your path is pretty clear. Were I you, I'd contact the other psych and make an appointment for him and tell the stepson to be there or else. If he doesn't show, change the locks and batten down the hatches.

[KFC911]

Good luck Steve...

[masraum]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Of course he's pissy...you actually stood up to him. Do it a few more times and he might get the hint and grow up a little.

If he seems upset that you didn't cave, then it might be more addict than mental patient. But I'm not a psych professional. Considering your comments on his history though, he sounds like a typical spoiled kid with a problem. Every time he gets in a bind he gets a bailout so why should he change his behavior? And he obviously hasn't come too close to bottoming out.

I think your path is pretty clear. Were I you, I'd contact the other psych and make an appointment for him and tell the stepson to be there or else. If he doesn't show, change the locks and batten down the hatches.

Thanks guys.

Yeah, he's not spoiled in the normal monetary sense, but he has been bailed out and not had to take normal responsibility for himself, so in that way he is spoiled. I wish I'd have kicked his ass (figuratively) back when he was younger, but what's done is done, and the only thing that matters is the present.

He's currently not coming back, not asking or trying to come back, and we aren't going to offer to let him come back (especially if he's not willing to ask for help).

We have his house keys, he doesn't have copies, so other than him breaking in, that's covered.

[911Rob]

Steve,
I would also suggest that you identify what YOU want. Think about the goal that you want to achieve in all of this. From that goal you will have a sense of direction to work towards. Often these types of relationships tend to go in circles and you want to keep it in a line, moving forward to your goal of what YOU want.

I think it will help?

I would offer:
1. I want my son to realize that he needs professional help.
2. I want him to submit to getting professional help.
3. I want him to stop abusing himself
4. I want him to stop threatening to kill himself
5. I want him to start leading a normal life
6. I want him to be a loving part of our family
7. I want him to be happy and cheerful
8. I want him to be successful

[masraum]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

Wow! Very sorry to read through this thread Steve.
I started it the other day but it was way too much for me at that time.
I've read every post and offer my deepest sympathies, what a gut wrenching experience to go through.

I have a ton of experience with this type of stuff and I hope that I can help here?

< snipped for space >

Thanks for all of the advice. Yes, I'm taking over as much as possible and trying to isolate his mother as much as possible. I only really consult with her if she asks for info or talk to her about it if she starts the conversation. Her stress level is 100x what mine is, and she's trying to go to school for a PhD so she's already under a lot of stress.

I just hope that we can work through this and come out the other end ok.

Thanks again.

[Seahawk]

So much excellent council here...the only thing I can add is my own experience.

I was, in the vernacular, "pissy" as a teenager. The only thing that stunned me out of my pissy malaise were my parents: they didn't buckle, ever. Their standards never changed, mine did.

It was abundantly clear that had I not made changes they were prepared to walk. That was key. My Father and I are extremely close (my Mother died in 1990 and so were we) to this day because I admire his resolve.

My old situation pales in comparison to yours, but the methodology to help remains the same: there is a reason it is called tough love.

IMHO, there is no better expression of love.

I wish you, your family and your son all the perspective it takes. Best.

Paul

[DarkSideDe]

I have a stepson as well. He was a wedding gift to me, from his mother. It is very hard to practice tough love - especially on your stepchildren. They aren't yours - they haven't been raised with your sense of right or wrong.

You need the parent to have a firm stand with the "child." It doesn't always take hold.

My stepson went off to college, came back home. Went off to see the world. Came back home. Everytime we turned around he was back. I am happy to say he is now married and we haven't heard from him in a while. I wish him and his bride the very best - and hope that it lasts forever.